FLOPS Older Fleets - How Phased Out For Pilots?

[On Your Six]

Recently I saw a beautiful FLOPS Falcon 50 at Naples and I wondered about how much longer those pilots will have in that aircraft given the consolidated fleet plan they have around the Beechjet, Hawker 800XP, X and Legacy.

How does the phase-out work for pilots on the Falcon 50, C525, Citation II/III/V, CL601 and GIV fleets? How much longer would the Falcon 50 pilots be flying those aircraft?

I would imagine that if I were flying a Falcon 50 or comfortable CL601, the prospect of flying a Beechjet or Hawker 800 next would not be so appealing (although the C525 or King Air pilot might have the opposite view).

How does the phase out work and where will most of the senior F50, CL601 and GIV pilots go - the Legacy and X most likely?

 

[clickclickboom]

answer

Recently I saw a beautiful FLOPS Falcon 50 at Naples and I wondered about how much longer those pilots will have in that aircraft given the consolidated fleet plan they have around the Beechjet, Hawker 800XP, X and Legacy.

How does the phase-out work for pilots on the Falcon 50, C525, Citation II/III/V, CL601 and GIV fleets? How much longer would the Falcon 50 pilots be flying those aircraft?

I would imagine that if I were flying a Falcon 50 or comfortable CL601, the prospect of flying a Beechjet or Hawker 800 next would not be so appealing (although the C525 or King Air pilot might have the opposite view).

How does the phase out work and where will most of the senior F50, CL601 and GIV pilots go - the Legacy and X most likely?

The pilots are offered positions based on their respective seniority number. For example a Citation III Captain in the low 100's will go to the citation X or Hawker wheras a mid 300 Citation II guy will go to beechjet..

Many senior guys have just left, retired, taken 91 jobs, airlines etc others are moving over to the legacy

 

[jetwash]

How does the phase-out work for pilots on the Falcon 50, C525, Citation II/III/V, CL601 and GIV fleets?

They are called to Cleveland, then taken behind the hangar and beaten with a set of chocks!!!

It's spelled out in the company "Go Forward" plan.

 

[On Your Six]

The pilots are offered positions based on their respective seniority number. For example a Citation III Captain in the low 100's will go to the citation X or Hawker wheras a mid 300 Citation II guy will go to beechjet..

Many senior guys have just left, retired, taken 91 jobs, airlines etc others are moving over to the legacy

Two questions:

1. Any idea how many Citation Xs you plan to get on the property? I know that Swift operated (or operates) a few for you with their crews. I have never heard anything specific in terms of projected # of Xs at FLOPS - anyone ever give an estimate or projection? I have noticed a number of used Xs on the market lately...

2. Also, just curious about the Legacy program. Have owners responded favorably to the Legacy? Are the shares selling pretty well? Have former Gulfstream or 601 owners migrated over to the Legacy?

 

[Heavy Set]

The pilots are offered positions based on their respective seniority number. For example a Citation III Captain in the low 100's will go to the citation X or Hawker wheras a mid 300 Citation II guy will go to beechjet..

Many senior guys have just left, retired, taken 91 jobs, airlines etc others are moving over to the legacy

Does anyone know or can anyone estimate how many of the following are still on the property with pilots assigned to them:

1. G-IV
2. 601
3. F50
4. Citation III
5. Citation II/V
6. C525
7. King Air 200

Will FLOPS get enough aircraft in the coming months/years to accomodate the people who transition out of these aircraft and choose to remain? As On Your Six just asked, are there plans to add many more XPs, Xs and Legacies? Any numbers?

 

[clickclickboom]

Does anyone know or can anyone estimate how many of the following are still on the property with pilots assigned to them:

1. G-IV
2. 601
3. F50
4. Citation III
5. Citation II/V
6. C525
7. King Air 200

Will FLOPS get enough aircraft in the coming months/years to accomodate the people who transition out of these aircraft and choose to remain? As On Your Six just asked, are there plans to add many more XPs, Xs and Legacies? Any numbers?

Not 100% sure but these are close numbers:

G 4 2 planes
601 5 or 6
Falcon 50 5-7
Citation III 7 ( one went into pre purchase)
CJ 6-8
King Air 4 or 5 but not sure
Think all Citation 2's are gone 4 or 5 V's remain

Flops sold out of legacy slots for this year and the next plane is sold as well.

They are adding new bj's and hawker xp's 1or 2 a month

Will be adding X's as they come available on the market at a profitable prive level. 3 are online with at least 5-10 more coming.

Probably see 3 Legacies next year

 

[Tommy Boy]

ac

There are still 6 citation V's with no plans to get rid of them for a few years. There is only 1 citation II and it will be gone as soon as someone buys it. There were still 12-14 cj's still on the board flying in occ when I was up there a month or so ago.

I have been told that they were selling/phasing out old bj's as the new ones come on and that the total #of bj's hasn't increased much. But like I said that is just what I have been told.

 

[On Your Six]

There are still 6 citation V's with no plans to get rid of them for a few years. There is only 1 citation II and it will be gone as soon as someone buys it. There were still 12-14 cj's still on the board flying in occ when I was up there a month or so ago.

I have been told that they were selling/phasing out old bj's as the new ones come on and that the total #of bj's hasn't increased much. But like I said that is just what I have been told.

So, what you are saying is that senior pilots in those aircraft slated for phase-out could be in those aircraft for a few more years depending upon owner contract length. I would imagine that the GIV, 601 and F50 pilots would want to stay in those as long as possible before a transfer to another fleet.

Question regarding the F50 - are they reasonably well equipped aircraft (EFIS, etc.) or are they older-generation aircraft? Regardless, they look great on the ramp. I've always been a big admirer of French aircraft design.

 

[Dep676]

I believe the FA-50 are all steam gauges. Also as far as the GIV and Challenger owners. I have heard they are not real happy about the Legacy. That's like comparing a Cadillac and Geo's.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Also as far as the GIV and Challenger owners. I have heard they are not real happy about the Legacy.

Dep676 understates the dislike our large cabin owners have for the Legacy. While there have been 1 or 2 who have been duped into the move, the vast majority of these owners will leave when their contracts expire. My statement assumes the remaining owners can't find a way out of their contracts sooner. We're frequently giving them cause to break the contract with disservices due to lack of aircraft availability and refusing to subcharter like aircraft, catering misques, etc. Flight Options has ceded the quality large cabin business to our competitors. Losing this business is a key part of the "Go Forward Fleet Plan".

Makes sense to me...uke: