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FlightOptions
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Frac Daddy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 384
kc135ang said:
1. Hiring: Not right now, but soon.....maybe.
2. Competitive? More important is STRONG recommendation from a current FLOPS pilot.
3. Base? Well, you can choose a domicile and commercial deadhead to and from there. Current policy says that you can pick a domicile that has at least three major airlines (express carriers included) and six round trip flights a day. You must live within about one hour from this airport or be within one hour by 3 am on your first day.
4. Most likely will start in the Beechjet.
Frac Daddy
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Frac Daddy
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Grim Reaper
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On Your Six
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Frac Daddy said:No layoffs. But with Citation and King Air pilots coming over, upgrade times for our FOs have increased. I don't think the King Air pilots will be happy. Those bums might actually have to work if they went to the Hawker or Beechjet.
I'm sure the guys on the GIV and 601 aren't too happy either. Although I guess the Legacy does have great "ramp presence." How many Legacies are planned to be on the line in 2005 and when will the GIVs and 601s be leaving the fleet? Will the departure of the GIV and the 601 mean that there will be less international flying to Europe, etc. or will the Legacy be able to handle that?
Grim Reaper
Well-known member
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I would encourage anyone thinking about employment with Flight Options to consider the following:
1. Flight Options has never has a profitable quarter. Flight Options is approx seven years old.
2. Dollar losses continue. There is no way that the interiem CEO can hold first quarter 05 losses to that forecast to the Board during the most recent Board meeting. Weekly charter cost for the month of January alone have far exceeded estimates. There will be another announcement of a senior magagement type leaving to seek other oppurtunities.
3. As stated by another poster on another string, Flight Options has or is making First Officer a career postion. The upgrade time will more than double with 40 plus pilots from other programs transitioning during first quarter 05. Most of those transitioning will go to the Hawker and Beechjet with some of the more senior going to the Legacy.
4. Expect this trend to continue. Do not put much stock in the notion that Flight Options will operate anything other than a Raytheon product longterm. The announment that Flight Options will operate the Legacy, the X, Hawkers and BeechJet: yeah, Right!! If you are a X guy or Legacy person, learn to spell Horizion or Hawker. Raytheon is not in the business of supporting Cessna, Falcon, etc.
5. Raytheon is the majority holder in Flight Options. Certain financial transactions are pending that will have Ratheon taking a stonger hold on Flight Options while edging out other investors.
6. Domicile policy will change. When and to what degree depends but you can expect a much more restricted list of domiciles.
7. Pay and benefits will not improve. Rather, it is more than likely that this will be an area of regression. Now there will not be an out and out pay cut, but the cost of benefits to the employee will continue to creep up while other bennies just go away.
Just some things to think about. Does not really matter much right now that the Flight Options is planning to park or dispose of 30 plus aircraft per year without a furlough and thus transistion pilots to other airframes. But the day may come when hiring starts again and you will want to make an informed decision.
1. Flight Options has never has a profitable quarter. Flight Options is approx seven years old.
2. Dollar losses continue. There is no way that the interiem CEO can hold first quarter 05 losses to that forecast to the Board during the most recent Board meeting. Weekly charter cost for the month of January alone have far exceeded estimates. There will be another announcement of a senior magagement type leaving to seek other oppurtunities.
3. As stated by another poster on another string, Flight Options has or is making First Officer a career postion. The upgrade time will more than double with 40 plus pilots from other programs transitioning during first quarter 05. Most of those transitioning will go to the Hawker and Beechjet with some of the more senior going to the Legacy.
4. Expect this trend to continue. Do not put much stock in the notion that Flight Options will operate anything other than a Raytheon product longterm. The announment that Flight Options will operate the Legacy, the X, Hawkers and BeechJet: yeah, Right!! If you are a X guy or Legacy person, learn to spell Horizion or Hawker. Raytheon is not in the business of supporting Cessna, Falcon, etc.
5. Raytheon is the majority holder in Flight Options. Certain financial transactions are pending that will have Ratheon taking a stonger hold on Flight Options while edging out other investors.
6. Domicile policy will change. When and to what degree depends but you can expect a much more restricted list of domiciles.
7. Pay and benefits will not improve. Rather, it is more than likely that this will be an area of regression. Now there will not be an out and out pay cut, but the cost of benefits to the employee will continue to creep up while other bennies just go away.
Just some things to think about. Does not really matter much right now that the Flight Options is planning to park or dispose of 30 plus aircraft per year without a furlough and thus transistion pilots to other airframes. But the day may come when hiring starts again and you will want to make an informed decision.
waveoff
breakin' the law
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 122
Look into fast food...seriously.
Check out how much you could make in the restaurant business. http://www.rtminc.com/Right_Compensation.htm The website belongs to a restaurant group that operates close to 1000 restaurants around the country.
Check out how much you could make in the restaurant business. http://www.rtminc.com/Right_Compensation.htm The website belongs to a restaurant group that operates close to 1000 restaurants around the country.
Grim Reaper 2. Dollar losses continue. There is no way that the interiem CEO can hold first quarter 05 losses to that forecast to the Board during the most recent Board meeting. Weekly charter cost for the month of January alone have far exceeded estimates. There will be another announcement of a senior magagement type leaving to seek other oppurtunities.[/QUOTE said:
Grim Reaper
Well-known member
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- Aug 17, 2002
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- 139
Dep676, the current middle management team is almost the same as it was on the day of the RTA / FO merger and that is a surprise. In my past experiences, when a new CEO arrives, he cleans house so that he might get rid of the old thinking and the old way of doing business. A new management team is installed and thus the old examples are erased and new methods and processes are installed.
What we have before us now, with a couple of very minor exceptions, is a Ricci / Rossi trained middle management team. These gentlemen do not know how to think through the process and make the necessary changes going forward without injecting the Ricci way into the thought process. As a result, the employee group is shackled to the old way of doing things and the company is dying.
My hope is that the interim CEO falls on his Regional Airline background can and is replaced by someone that will shake up middle management in a very extreme way. By that I mean replace each and every one of them; VP’s PM’s OCC managers: the lot. Why? Because these people are incompetent and dragging down the company. Pilot moral is low to non-existent and the company continues to bleed RED. Flight Options needs a new management team completely free of the influences of Ricci and the Ricci holdovers.
What we have before us now, with a couple of very minor exceptions, is a Ricci / Rossi trained middle management team. These gentlemen do not know how to think through the process and make the necessary changes going forward without injecting the Ricci way into the thought process. As a result, the employee group is shackled to the old way of doing things and the company is dying.
My hope is that the interim CEO falls on his Regional Airline background can and is replaced by someone that will shake up middle management in a very extreme way. By that I mean replace each and every one of them; VP’s PM’s OCC managers: the lot. Why? Because these people are incompetent and dragging down the company. Pilot moral is low to non-existent and the company continues to bleed RED. Flight Options needs a new management team completely free of the influences of Ricci and the Ricci holdovers.
Grim Reaper My hope is that the interim CEO falls on his Regional Airline background can and is replaced by someone that will shake up middle management in a very extreme way. By that I mean replace each and every one of them; VP’s PM’s OCC managers: the lot. Why? Because these people are incompetent and dragging down the company. Pilot moral is low to non-existent and the company continues to bleed RED. Flight Options needs a new management team completely free of the influences of Ricci and the Ricci holdovers.[/QUOTE said:
islandflyer
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2002
- Posts
- 12
consider the following
The company is for certain subject to scrutiny of 12+ SEC attorneys in their now almost 3 year long formal investigation. This is fact not speculation. Will indictments result? Raytheon's response to shareholder is that "they do not know, maybe." Rumour which I haven't been able to substantiate either with Raytheon or New York is that New York based United States attorney's office is pursuing criminal investigation of activity at Flight Options. I truly think that Raytheon doesn't know and can't get an answer. If the U.S. attoney's office and the FBI have been wiretapping and secretly investigating, they aren't telling anyone at this time. This is an unknown.
If you are Raytheon this presents quite a dilemna. You know you have serious problems. You know you need to completely overhaul management as the previous two posters have strongly affirmed. No reputable management team, however, is going to come onto the premises until after the federal investigatory axe has dropped. In an unofficial and consulting capacity the possible future management team may be directing or advising triage to a certain extent but they are not going to have their names and reputation associated with a division that may be facing very public criminal charges. Better for them to wait until it officially hits the fan and then come in and be the clean up, turnaround team.
If you accept and understand this scenario then you can understand the special something that awaits JS and company. Raytheon ,perhaps, is saving something truly special for them that isn't good. What is truly amazing is that they stick around perhaps even suspecting that they are destined to be the fall guys.
Then again, maybe I don't know anything and my opinion is worth nothing. Keep you eyes wide open in the next six months and let's see. Agreed.
The company is for certain subject to scrutiny of 12+ SEC attorneys in their now almost 3 year long formal investigation. This is fact not speculation. Will indictments result? Raytheon's response to shareholder is that "they do not know, maybe." Rumour which I haven't been able to substantiate either with Raytheon or New York is that New York based United States attorney's office is pursuing criminal investigation of activity at Flight Options. I truly think that Raytheon doesn't know and can't get an answer. If the U.S. attoney's office and the FBI have been wiretapping and secretly investigating, they aren't telling anyone at this time. This is an unknown.
If you are Raytheon this presents quite a dilemna. You know you have serious problems. You know you need to completely overhaul management as the previous two posters have strongly affirmed. No reputable management team, however, is going to come onto the premises until after the federal investigatory axe has dropped. In an unofficial and consulting capacity the possible future management team may be directing or advising triage to a certain extent but they are not going to have their names and reputation associated with a division that may be facing very public criminal charges. Better for them to wait until it officially hits the fan and then come in and be the clean up, turnaround team.
If you accept and understand this scenario then you can understand the special something that awaits JS and company. Raytheon ,perhaps, is saving something truly special for them that isn't good. What is truly amazing is that they stick around perhaps even suspecting that they are destined to be the fall guys.
Then again, maybe I don't know anything and my opinion is worth nothing. Keep you eyes wide open in the next six months and let's see. Agreed.
Grim Reaper
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- Aug 17, 2002
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- 139
Islandflyer, Please pardon my lack of knowledge regarding the event you mention, but is this SEC investigation you discuss directed specifically toward Raytheons holdings in Flight Options and those associated with Flight Options or a general investigation of Raytheon (RTN).
If it is a general investigation of Raytheon (RTN), is it possible that you can detail specific SEC information that involves Flight Options association with this SEC investigation in particular?
If it is a general investigation of Raytheon (RTN), is it possible that you can detail specific SEC information that involves Flight Options association with this SEC investigation in particular?
islandflyer
Member
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- May 5, 2002
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- 12
sec investigation
You can actually call the SEC and ask to speak to team investigating Raytheon. You will eventually be transferred to manhattan office with twelve lawyers in it all dedicated to Raytheon. Their investigation started with Raytheon's pattern of reporting sales/revenues of Raytheon Aircraft. The original sales in question were program sales of Beech 1900 to various airlines. The question then becomes quickly, when is a sale not a sale. The answer is simple. It isn't a sale when your contract provides that you can be forced to take the aircraft back, ie. when the airline goes bankrupt or switches to Regional Jets.
What other sales does Raytheon Aircraft make that are exactly like this. Take a look at Travel Air and Flight Options owner contracts. The owners have a disservice clause that allows them to force company to take the aircraft back. Prior to 2003 reports to stockholders, the quarterly and annual reports did not qualify these sales in any way. After the SEC investigation was a year underway, Raytheon reports to stockholders informed stockholders of an approximate half a billion dollar potential liability sitting over at Flight Options should the owners exercise their contract options and force Raytheon to buy back their aircraft shares.
The latest new language being adopted under the scrutiny of the ongoing SEC investigation is "intersegment sales." This comes into play for instance when Raytheon Aircraft sold aircraft to Raytheon Travel Air or Flight Options LLC. Do you get to report these as final sales when you are just selling the aircraft to another wholly or partly owned subsidiary?
The above is a discussion of aircraft sales. Next is the reporting of service and management revenues. When are management or flight hour revenues reported to stockholders (over a billion dollars) not unqualified revenues. Answer, when you have reason to believe you might have to refund those money's for whatever reason to the aircraft owners. Owners who may find out many of their flights were made in aircraft the management company knew to be unairworthy. If there is a chance of this then the stockholders have to be informed. You have to audit your wayward division and find out just how bad the damage is. You do this with the SEC axe over your own head knowing that if you don't, they will and then you will have lost all control over remedies.
When you are done auditing, you report to stockholders. If you want to know if the auditing is complete look for statement on February 3rd or 4th report to stockholders. If there is no report to stockholders concerning flights in unairworthy aircraft and possible refunds of previously reported revenues to owners then it means that the auditing has only just begun and will get much more thorough. Flight leg by Flight leg. This buys Raytheon more time under the pretense of being thorough. There is an August deadline of sorts, past which Raytheon cannot delay. Between now and August just hold on for the ride. It won't be boring.
You can actually call the SEC and ask to speak to team investigating Raytheon. You will eventually be transferred to manhattan office with twelve lawyers in it all dedicated to Raytheon. Their investigation started with Raytheon's pattern of reporting sales/revenues of Raytheon Aircraft. The original sales in question were program sales of Beech 1900 to various airlines. The question then becomes quickly, when is a sale not a sale. The answer is simple. It isn't a sale when your contract provides that you can be forced to take the aircraft back, ie. when the airline goes bankrupt or switches to Regional Jets.
What other sales does Raytheon Aircraft make that are exactly like this. Take a look at Travel Air and Flight Options owner contracts. The owners have a disservice clause that allows them to force company to take the aircraft back. Prior to 2003 reports to stockholders, the quarterly and annual reports did not qualify these sales in any way. After the SEC investigation was a year underway, Raytheon reports to stockholders informed stockholders of an approximate half a billion dollar potential liability sitting over at Flight Options should the owners exercise their contract options and force Raytheon to buy back their aircraft shares.
The latest new language being adopted under the scrutiny of the ongoing SEC investigation is "intersegment sales." This comes into play for instance when Raytheon Aircraft sold aircraft to Raytheon Travel Air or Flight Options LLC. Do you get to report these as final sales when you are just selling the aircraft to another wholly or partly owned subsidiary?
The above is a discussion of aircraft sales. Next is the reporting of service and management revenues. When are management or flight hour revenues reported to stockholders (over a billion dollars) not unqualified revenues. Answer, when you have reason to believe you might have to refund those money's for whatever reason to the aircraft owners. Owners who may find out many of their flights were made in aircraft the management company knew to be unairworthy. If there is a chance of this then the stockholders have to be informed. You have to audit your wayward division and find out just how bad the damage is. You do this with the SEC axe over your own head knowing that if you don't, they will and then you will have lost all control over remedies.
When you are done auditing, you report to stockholders. If you want to know if the auditing is complete look for statement on February 3rd or 4th report to stockholders. If there is no report to stockholders concerning flights in unairworthy aircraft and possible refunds of previously reported revenues to owners then it means that the auditing has only just begun and will get much more thorough. Flight leg by Flight leg. This buys Raytheon more time under the pretense of being thorough. There is an August deadline of sorts, past which Raytheon cannot delay. Between now and August just hold on for the ride. It won't be boring.
Grim Reaper
Well-known member
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- Aug 17, 2002
- Posts
- 139
islandflyer, Thanks for the reply. It has been my longterm understanding the "owner dis-service" was a standard item in fractional aircraft management contracts regardless of provider. It infact the issue of "owner dis-service" and refunding / allowing the owner to opt out of the progam at no cost become a hot topic then is very possible that fractional ownership as those of us in the business understand it will cease to exist.
longrangekiller
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beechjetpilot1
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- 76
islandflyer
Member
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- May 5, 2002
- Posts
- 12
first link + second link is the axe hanging over Raytheon's head
"SEC investigators have been focusing on how Raytheon booked revenue from 1997 to 2001 [Raytheon Travel Air years of operation] from the sale of business jets built by its Raytheon Aircraft Co. unit in Wichita, Kan. During much of that period, Pliner was a senior partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers overseeing Raytheon bookkeeping. Pliner joined Raytheon in 2000 and became chief financial officer in 2002."
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/04/16/raytheon_cfo_faces_sec_action/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Business+News
+
http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/AIR/2004/TOPLIFF_JOHN_v_FLIGHT_OPTIONS_LLC_2004AIR00018_(DEC_21_2005)_094105_CADEC_SD_files/css/TOPLIFF_JOHN_v_FLIGHT_OPTIONS_LLC_2004AIR00018_(DEC_21_2005)_094105_CADEC_SD.HTM
excellent contribution gunfyter. you have stumbled upon what is really driving Raytheon's decision making of late. Fear of full disclosure to the aircraft owner's of what the "A team guys" have been up to all these years.
A pilot union that says to pilots, "no more favors. Follow the law to the letter." and says to management, "give us the crew staffing and supplemental lift to do our jobs safely and legally." is a direct threat to Raytheon's pattern of greed and corruption.
"SEC investigators have been focusing on how Raytheon booked revenue from 1997 to 2001 [Raytheon Travel Air years of operation] from the sale of business jets built by its Raytheon Aircraft Co. unit in Wichita, Kan. During much of that period, Pliner was a senior partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers overseeing Raytheon bookkeeping. Pliner joined Raytheon in 2000 and became chief financial officer in 2002."
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/04/16/raytheon_cfo_faces_sec_action/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Business+News
+
http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/AIR/2004/TOPLIFF_JOHN_v_FLIGHT_OPTIONS_LLC_2004AIR00018_(DEC_21_2005)_094105_CADEC_SD_files/css/TOPLIFF_JOHN_v_FLIGHT_OPTIONS_LLC_2004AIR00018_(DEC_21_2005)_094105_CADEC_SD.HTM
excellent contribution gunfyter. you have stumbled upon what is really driving Raytheon's decision making of late. Fear of full disclosure to the aircraft owner's of what the "A team guys" have been up to all these years.
A pilot union that says to pilots, "no more favors. Follow the law to the letter." and says to management, "give us the crew staffing and supplemental lift to do our jobs safely and legally." is a direct threat to Raytheon's pattern of greed and corruption.
Last edited:
Jetsi
Zoo Crew
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2002
- Posts
- 163
longrangekiller said:
beechjetpilot1 said:
In March it will be 2 years since I have flown as an Options Pilot. I can honestly tell you that there are greener pastures out there, ones that will make you feel welcome and enjoy going to work (I know, I know, what a novel concept
)Hang in there, get some representation, and make Options a place someone would enjoy working at.
Jetsi
Wyatt
HELL'S COMIN WITH ME!
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2006
- Posts
- 54
Right now it sucks. Maybe the union will make it better, maybe not. I think it will be a race against time as far as whether or not things will improve fast enough to keep the doors from closing. If mother would come in and lop the head off the company and replace most of the upper and middle managers it would help. At any rate you would be smarter to look elsewhere.
islandflyer
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2002
- Posts
- 12
These guys are doing the right thing- honors
"Recognizing the company policy is that the final decision to fly a plane rests with the pilots; they consistently attempt to badger, intimidate, and often attack our personal work ethics in the interest of getting pilots to fly airplanes with maintenance discrepancies or airworthiness issues.
Our Goals;
Ø Increased safety
Ø Industry competitive wages
Ø Fair and equitable work rules
Ø Protection of our domiciles and schedules
Ø Protection of our seniority list and seniority rights
Ø Protection of individual pilots from unjust treatment
Ø Protection of our jobs in the event of a merger, sale, or transfer of aircraft
Ø Representation for our pilots during FAA inquiries or disciplinary actions
Ø Establishment of democratically elected pilot representation tasked with presenting issues of collective concern to management on behalf of the entire pilot group
Your Organizing Committee
Mark Allen
Randy (Joe) Clements
Troy Denson
Steven (Travis) Gazzo
Michael (Mike) Groner
William (Bill) Hart
Frederick (Rick) Katai
Erick (Rick) Maluda
William McCoy
Scott Mund
Gary Phillips
Jonathan Prince
George Rayburn
Micah Saumier
Mathew (Mat) Slinghoff
"Recognizing the company policy is that the final decision to fly a plane rests with the pilots; they consistently attempt to badger, intimidate, and often attack our personal work ethics in the interest of getting pilots to fly airplanes with maintenance discrepancies or airworthiness issues.
Our Goals;
Ø Increased safety
Ø Industry competitive wages
Ø Fair and equitable work rules
Ø Protection of our domiciles and schedules
Ø Protection of our seniority list and seniority rights
Ø Protection of individual pilots from unjust treatment
Ø Protection of our jobs in the event of a merger, sale, or transfer of aircraft
Ø Representation for our pilots during FAA inquiries or disciplinary actions
Ø Establishment of democratically elected pilot representation tasked with presenting issues of collective concern to management on behalf of the entire pilot group
Your Organizing Committee
Mark Allen
Randy (Joe) Clements
Troy Denson
Steven (Travis) Gazzo
Michael (Mike) Groner
William (Bill) Hart
Frederick (Rick) Katai
Erick (Rick) Maluda
William McCoy
Scott Mund
Gary Phillips
Jonathan Prince
George Rayburn
Micah Saumier
Mathew (Mat) Slinghoff
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