Flight school sued for $50,000,000

[cale42]

Igneousy2.. you've got to be kidding me. 3 hours of pure BAI training would drive most people completey insane. I could be wrong but it seems to me that flying an approach is pretty solid BAI training. Teach above and beyond the standards. If you can fly good BAI while tracking a localizer and a glideslope you are certainly well prepared to make a 180 degree turn out of the clouds. I'm not saying I teach my private students all about an approach setup and make them do the whole thing. But many good private students can take BAI to the level of being able to track a needle while descending(otherwise known as an instrument approach). If a student can do climbs, turns, and descents under the hood after .5 of hood time, I feel it would be a waste of my students money to continue to make them do that for an additional 2.5 hours. In fact an instructor that makes a student continue to do the same exercise just to fill a requirement when they are competent at it after 1/2 an hour is my textbook definition of a poor instructor not serving their student. So please don't be advising students that they need to switch instructors b/c their instructor chose to challenge them.

cale

 

[100LL... Again!]

I think that a lot of CFIs criticize the idea of taking students up in IMC to mask ther own lack of comfort with instrumnt flight.

I took many of my students up in IMC, and talked them through a basic VOR approach back to the airport. My personal minimums for this type of training is a ceiling at least 400-500 feet above the MDA, two miles vis, no icing and no more that light turbulence and wind.

If you, as a CFI, are not comfortable with this, then fine. Just don't get your panties in a wad and criticize those of us who are fine with it.

Back when I flew cargo, I used to get a chuckle out of 500 hour CFIs telling me how dangerous single-pilot cargo flying was.

That is the biggest problem with low-timers - they only know one way, and every other way is wrong (at least a lot of them seem to think this way).

 

[100LL... Again!]

Igneousy2.. you've got to be kidding me. 3 hours of pure BAI training would drive most people completey insane. I could be wrong but it seems to me that flying an approach is pretty solid BAI training. Teach above and beyond the standards. If you can fly good BAI while tracking a localizer and a glideslope you are certainly well prepared to make a 180 degree turn out of the clouds. I'm not saying I teach my private students all about an approach setup and make them do the whole thing. But many good private students can take BAI to the level of being able to track a needle while descending(otherwise known as an instrument approach). If a student can do climbs, turns, and descents under the hood after .5 of hood time, I feel it would be a waste of my students money to continue to make them do that for an additional 2.5 hours. In fact an instructor that makes a student continue to do the same exercise just to fill a requirement when they are competent at it after 1/2 an hour is my textbook definition of a poor instructor not serving their student. So please don't be advising students that they need to switch instructors b/c their instructor chose to challenge them.

cale

BAI must be combined with high-workload simulations to properly assess whether the sudent is safe.

Any knucklehead can fly BAI halfway decent after an hour. Yet they often die in the clouds when they go VFR-into-IMC. Why?

Panic.

The problem is not that they can't ly instruments. The problem is they they DON'T get on the gauges immediately.

Igneously doesn't address this. Over-emphasis on low-workload BAI can give the student the false impression that a VFR-into-IMC incident will be no big deal.

I make students tune nav and comm radios, answer oral questions, write down information, talk to flight service, whatever while they fly.
I try to simulate the stress they will feel by putting a lot of pressure on them about their performance on instruments (not on the first lesson,of course).

If they can handle me screwing with their mind whilethey fly BAI, then I know that they are ready.

The majority of VFR-into-IMC happen after the pilot has already descended quite low to avoid clouds. Therefore, there is very little time to realize that you are IMC, get a grip on yourself, settle down and start flying instruments.

It is very important to get the student to understand that they must IMMEDIATELY get on the gauges before an unusual attitude happens.

The overpowering desire to regain visual contact with the ground will cause many pilots to divert their attention away from the panel and desperatelytry to see the ground. This is what kills them. By the time they give up on visual flight and get back to the panel, everything looks really bad, and they often assume that their gauges are wrong.

On several ATC transcriptions I have read, one of the last things a pilot says before they lose control is that their instruments are "all screwed up".

In short, teach your students to get on the gauges early, pay special attention to bank control, and STAY on the gauges until they break out FULLY.

Most pilots can fly BAI fairly well. The question is WILL they do it when they need to?

 

[Snakum]

I took many of my students up in IMC

But did you bring any back, or did gravity take care of that for you?

But seriously folks ...

I think every PPL candidate should get a good dose of actual, if for no other reason than to increase the likelihood that they will remain calm and do what they gotta do if they get in over their head (IMC).

In addition, they ought to have more night-time flying for the PPL, including night solo requirements. I realize that the PPL is a license to learn, but I think the FAA should mandate just a bit broader experience for that first ticket.

When I am elected King of America, I'll see what I can do.

Minhberg Phlipper

 

[Prof. ATP]

Sure, every private pilot needs 3 hours of instrument training. Most of the time that is done with a hood on, but I always tried to get that time done in actual IMC.

Of course, there are limits to the weather I'd do this in, and 200 and 1/2 are below them. 400 and 1 are probably the lowest I'd take a student pilot up in.

When I was working on my private in 1983 I did an ILS to a 300 ft ceiling. My primary instructor was a proficient instrument instructor and did this routinely; it was almost necessary, since in southern California those conditions were common.