Flight Options Pilots!

[ProFracPilot]

What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with?

I am not attacking anyone who is pro-union so please extend me the same professionalism.

The harm is the timeframe, Schmed. If Mr. Tyler is the pilot advocate he claims to be, and if he had any real authority, he would have made some sort of change very soon after his arrival in an effort to stem the tide of sliding morale and to show good faith. Either by choice or dictum, he has been unable to do either. What he has done thus far is make empty promises.

Contrary to their interpretation of "laboratory period", the company is NOT restricted from making the previously announce QOL and compensation "changes" on Jan 31st. I'm very interested to see how they respond.

As recently as this time last year, I was certainly not pro-union. However, the regressive burden placed on the pilots combined with the vacuum of communication and the seemingly endless unaccountability of waste from within OCC has necessitated that I and many others reconsider their position.

You're going to have a tough sell.

 

[TurboHonda]

There is no question his arrival to Flight Options was 90 days too late. It is unfortunate that many are not willing to give him a chance. What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with?

If you’re really as naïve as you want us to believe, which I doubt, I’ll tell you why I won’t give BT a chance. BT is not the company. MS is not the company. Raytheon is the company.

I’ve seen this time and time again. Managers come and go. Some are likable and some are not. Sometimes a real tyrant comes in and makes a lot of distasteful changes. Then the company gets rid of him, but keeps the changes. Sometimes a really nice guy comes in and appears to try to do good, but after his purpose is served he is gone too.

It’s all by design. The company, Raytheon, has played us like cheap fiddles for years. And, they’ll keep playing us a long as we let them.

Give management a chance? Sorry. Not this time.

 

[XPGuy]

Getting a union at Flight Options would be a huge mistake. I know for a fact that good things will come if we can shoot this thing down. Pay is gonna get better, tier 3 guys are soon to get relief. If you vote this thing in, your gonna pay due's for something that is gonna takes years bear fruit. Vote this thing down and results will be immediate.

For those that say a union will stop the company from taking more away from you, call a Delta pilot and ask how he likes his 65% pay reduction. There isn't a union in the world that is gonna get you money that the company doesnt have. All a union does is take money from the pilots and divides us from managment. Give Bob Tyler a chance, he is good people and is gonna help us.

You know for a fact, huh? Tell me mister wizard - what if the company sells us this year? You are a fool if you think that can't happen. If you have been working at this company more than 90 days you would know that very real possibility. If you have been here for more than 3 years you would know the pain and suffering that the pilot group has gone through every day since the merger - unfair seat assignments, upgrades, seniority merging, the list goes on.

You are EITHER a management person yourself, someone who works for Ford & Harrison who has been hired to do whatever it takes to defeat the union vote, or a pilot who is swimming in company kool-aid.

Bring me evidence to your "known facts". If you don't, I will rely on the "facts" we ALL know to be true, and that is the history our management has with this company the previous 3 years. I will not fall for your FUD. Bring me facts, or shut the hell up.

 

[XPGuy]

There is no question his arrival to Flight Options was 90 days too late. It is unfortunate that many are not willing to give him a chance. What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with? And if he doesnt come thru, then petition another vote. Just seems like "Ready, Fire, Aim" to me.

Several posts have encourage us non-union types to visit the IBT site and become more informed. I will do that provided the pro-union pilots call Bob Tyler and learn what he is all about.

I am not attacking anyone who is pro-union so please extend me the same professionalism.

What harm will it do? Well, let's see. Should the union vote fail:


1) We remain naked should we be sold, merged, or aquired - we will be open to the same abuse the pilots received the last time that happened, and who knows - it could be worse. If we are aquired, and the buyer only wants our aircraft, they could refuse to hire our pilots, or force us to interview for the same job we have.

2) Ken Ricci gave us the "give us a chance" speech to torpedo the LAST union drive that RTA lost by only 14 votes. We gave him a chance. And it has been 3 painful, suffering years of losing benefits, pay, seniority, unfair seniority practices, and a loss of quality of life issues to include domiciles, crew meals, poor crew rest management, and abuse on day 8 travel, for starters. I could write a 10-page article on the QOL issues alone.

3) We may get some sort of crappy compensation package like Flex Jet did. It will NOT address the most important things such as crew rest management (the crap about after 10 hrs of rest having to answer your phone in rest or going over 16 hours on day 8), overtime, holiday pay, a real crew meal policy, nor will we get the protections a union affords us when being disciplined by management, involved in an aircraft incident or accident, check rides and IOE upgrades, or whistle blowing. Not to mention, at the first opportunity, such as the changing of the guard at the CEO level or the first financial report that "shows us at a loss", the company can TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING it gives us in this pay package and state "due to the current market conditions we can't afford to maintain the benefits package awarded in Q1 of 2006", and we are back to the same pay. Remember. The last 3 CEO's all took stuff away from us that was promised by the previous CEO. SFO program, CLE domicile incentive pay, tier 3's, crew meal policy, the list goes on.

4) Should the vote fail, it will literally be days before it will be "business as usual", and the crap continues. We will stop being called "team members", and will again be "crew members" or "just the pilots".... and we won't be able to petition for a minimum of 12 months.



What do we have to lose? A hell of a lot. We already are losing 20% of our pilots annually. If this vote fails, it will probably double. This company won't be worth working for if this vote fails. We have a lot to lose indeed.

 

[greygoose]

According to what I recall. Not even two months ago when they started releasing the Q&A's from Simuflite on the BB's. The first Q&A that was given to us specifically said from Bob's mouth that there was not going to be a raise, what so ever. Now all of a sudden they have a package all together, later to be said they cant release it because of the union vote.
I wasnt a union supporter until seeing things like this, gives me a open mind.

 

[TurboHonda]

What harm will it do? Well, let's see. Should the union vote fail:


1) We remain naked should we be sold, merged, or aquired - we will be open to the same abuse the pilots received the last time that happened, and who knows - it could be worse. If we are aquired, and the buyer only wants our aircraft, they could refuse to hire our pilots, or force us to interview for the same job we have.

2) Ken Ricci gave us the "give us a chance" speech to torpedo the LAST union drive that RTA lost by only 14 votes. We gave him a chance. And it has been 3 painful, suffering years of losing benefits, pay, seniority, unfair seniority practices, and a loss of quality of life issues to include domiciles, crew meals, poor crew rest management, and abuse on day 8 travel, for starters. I could write a 10-page article on the QOL issues alone.

3) We may get some sort of crappy compensation package like Flex Jet did. It will NOT address the most important things such as crew rest management (the crap about after 10 hrs of rest having to answer your phone in rest or going over 16 hours on day 8), overtime, holiday pay, a real crew meal policy, nor will we get the protections a union affords us when being disciplined by management, involved in an aircraft incident or accident, check rides and IOE upgrades, or whistle blowing. Not to mention, at the first opportunity, such as the changing of the guard at the CEO level or the first financial report that "shows us at a loss", the company can TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING it gives us in this pay package and state "due to the current market conditions we can't afford to maintain the benefits package awarded in Q1 of 2006", and we are back to the same pay. Remember. The last 3 CEO's all took stuff away from us that was promised by the previous CEO. SFO program, CLE domicile incentive pay, tier 3's, crew meal policy, the list goes on.

4) Should the vote fail, it will literally be days before it will be "business as usual", and the crap continues. We will stop being called "team members", and will again be "crew members" or "just the pilots".... and we won't be able to petition for a minimum of 12 months.



What do we have to lose? A hell of a lot. We already are losing 20% of our pilots annually. If this vote fails, it will probably double. This company won't be worth working for if this vote fails. We have a lot to lose indeed.

Excellant summary. Although, I think Schmegma and his total of 4 posts knows this already. He's just trying to appeal to the uninitiated among us. It's up to us to be students of history, rather than current events.

 

[Heavy Set]

There is no question his arrival to Flight Options was 90 days too late. It is unfortunate that many are not willing to give him a chance. What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with? And if he doesnt come thru, then petition another vote. Just seems like "Ready, Fire, Aim" to me.

Several posts have encourage us non-union types to visit the IBT site and become more informed. I will do that provided the pro-union pilots call Bob Tyler and learn what he is all about.

I am not attacking anyone who is pro-union so please extend me the same professionalism.

Management stooge....

 

[Tommy Boy]

There is no question his arrival to Flight Options was 90 days too late. It is unfortunate that many are not willing to give him a chance. What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with? And if he doesnt come thru, then petition another vote. Just seems like "Ready, Fire, Aim" to me.

Several posts have encourage us non-union types to visit the IBT site and become more informed. I will do that provided the pro-union pilots call Bob Tyler and learn what he is all about.

I am not attacking anyone who is pro-union so please extend me the same professionalism.

Ready aim fire????

More like the slaves revolting. We have been under their knife for years and years and because we don't fall for their latest lies its ready aim fire???

NO, it is us saying NO MORE. We have had enough. You have had chance after chance after chance and we are through giving you chances.

Our butts are too sore. United we stand.

 

[FL450]

The cards were sent. The vote will come. The decision will be made. This process is well in motion now. The reality will soon be how many actually roll up their sleeves and participate? I've also had bad experiences with Unions. I've been in 3 different ones over the years. Actually, 4 if you count the vast difference between 1108 and 284. Spilled milk.

One thing that is clear is that a unionized Flops will only be as good as it's membership's participation. That is a fact that all of this pro-union or anti-union rhetoric will never change. You can spread your FUD campaign all you like. It's your right.

But remember this. If and more like when Flops does becomes unionized, your choice will then be to stay and be an active member or leave. Any other choice, except to become management, will undermine both your Union and your company that you claim to so dearly admire. Time will tell.

 

[netjetwife]

In the spirit of giving credit where credit is due, let's make the number--four!
We all saw for ourselves the "vast difference" between 284 and 1108!

Like night and day! Remember, I attended the Con Job/Road Show in our area when the FAILED 5 came through.
I'll share one of my best lines with you.....repeat after me....The TA does not reflect that!
Ya gotta be ready to vote the first one down if it doesn't measure up!

 

[dime line]

Yes but I've noticed Schmeddley hasn't posted on the FLOPS board, think he is from the Miami Law firm

 

[XPGuy]

Bring 'em on... We'll eat their lunch... and I'm hungry.


It's time to KICK ASS and CHEW BUBBLE GUM... and I'm all out of gum.

 

[Schmeddley]

I have on occation posted on our internal site. I am not from any law firm. Just a line pilot that is not interested in a union. I assure you however, if this thing happens to pass, I will pay my dues and be a good little boy. But I will try my best to get 51% to see my point of view.

 

[XPGuy]

Good luck feeding people kool-aid, schmedley. Why don't you read those reasons I gave on what could we lose if "we shoot this thing down", and try to rebut them to me. I'd really like to hear how you think our pilots are better off not having a union. Don't just say it, prove it.

 

[greygoose]

I have on occation posted on our internal site. I am not from any law firm. Just a line pilot that is not interested in a union. I assure you however, if this thing happens to pass, I will pay my dues and be a good little boy. But I will try my best to get 51% to see my point of view.

Why don't you go post your views on the 1108 site, everyone has a screenname and is unknown on the board. I highly believe you will find more FLOPS pilots on that site that you could try to convince then you can here.

 

[netjetwife]

Schmmeddley, what they see is you still circling the flag pole. How many trips around will it take? Check the wind sock. A Strong (Union ) wind is headed your direction.

 

[FracCapt]

Getting a union at Flight Options would be a huge mistake. I know for a fact that good things will come if we can shoot this thing down.

PM me your phone number and name and we can talk about this. I can also verify whether or not you are a legitimate pilot for Flight Options. If you don't, I'll take it as an admission that you are a company lemming and/or member of the Union busting firm.

 

[Hawkered]

Scmeddley

You have probably just broken the law!

You cannot make such a claim unless you are part of management, and if you are part of management you are not complying with the provisions of the National Labor Relations Act.

The IBT can ask the National Labor Relations Board to subpoena these boards for ISP addresses to verify your identity and intentions. If they are found to be illegal, you could be indicted.

 

[XPGuy]

Yeah, actually, that's a very good point. If he "knows for a fact", then he violates the laboratory conditions.

 

[ce750drvr]

If you vote this thing in, your gonna pay due's....

Oh GOD!!!! The dreaded 1.5% union dues. How will we live? Your dues will probably get you a bigger raise than without. Even paying your dues you will most likely be making more.

By the way, you're an idiot.

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Hey Schmmeddley!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for your post!!!!!!!

Your BS alone has made up my mind that I will vote for the 1108!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RVATOR]

Not that Im a flops pilot (maint guy here) but I thought I saw a email(flops email that is) last thur that there were not enough pilots to call a vote? was this some sort of game from the company to stop someone from getting on board or did I read the email wrong?

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Rvator

I think you read it wrong!

http://www.teamster.org/06news/hn_060107_2.htm

This should tell it all!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Archie Bunker]

For those that say a union will stop the company from taking more away from you, call a Delta pilot and ask how he likes his 65% pay reduction. There isn't a union in the world that is gonna get you money that the company doesnt have.

Better get your facts straight smart guy, and stop pulling numbers out of your ass. At Delta we have taken a total of two paycuts in the last 13 months. The first was in Dec '04 for 32.5%, and the second was effective Dec 15, 2005 for 14%. Maybe you haven't kept up with the news, but we're in Ch.11 bankruptcy right now. Our future is questionable at best. The situation is slightly different at most fractional airlines with which I am familiar. You actually have a lot of leverage at the bargaining table.....something that most legacy carriers haven't had since early 2001.

From now on, if you're going to spew your anti-union hyperbole all over these boards, do us all a favor and stop making up numbers, ok? Your credibility is already suspect, at best.

 

[XPGuy]

Well said. Schmedley - how's that taste? Have anymore "schmedley's facts" you'd like to spew? Or should we call this a done deal and you can go back to Ford-Harrison and tell them you failed?

 

[tdpilot]

Is anyone interested in unbiased info?

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/faqs-ola.html

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2001/28n034.html

This information is from the National Mediation Board. Read and draw your own conclusions.

 

[taloft]

There is no question his arrival to Flight Options was 90 days too late. It is unfortunate that many are not willing to give him a chance. What harm would it do to shoot this thing down, and give him a chance to produce a package that we can all live with? And if he doesnt come thru, then petition another vote. Just seems like "Ready, Fire, Aim" to me.

Or you could just vote the union in, then ask him to give you a decent contract. If he's such a great guy, a little thing like having a union won't make a difference in treating the employees decently.

 

[Hobbes]

Right, if they are supposedly going to treat us so well anyhow ( I guess you know that for a fact, right Schmeddley? just like Tier 3 guys knew a few years ago they could live in their hometown, right?) well, then they can just treat us well with it locked into a binding contract where they can't take it back at whim. What is the difference, right? Unless, MAYBE those trying to fight a union, don't plan on acting in good faith in the future with regards to our pay and QOL and other issues....That is the only reason I can think of that a company wants to stop a union which is comprised of it's own employees...not outsiders...not Teamsters...we run the union from within our own pilot group. So put it in writing...no problems. Honor the rules...standby them...don't break them every time there is a "need." Otherwise why have rules?

also....I haven't heard you refute any of the reasons why we need a union Shmeddley....or seen you post on the 1108 site either. you have no credibility in my eyes. good day.