Flight Options Pilots’ Chairman's Message

[brokeflyer]

Many of the posts complain about a lot more than just the money. Are you under the fantasy that a CBA is going to fix all the percieved problems there that are beyond pay and work rules?

Any pilot can just go out and make money. If it was all about the money and you didn't care about the infrastructure, everybody on this board would be working for a legacy carrier knowing that the final payoff will greatly exceed anything they would ever make at a fractional, including NJ.

It's not only about the money, it's about QOL and other things that go around it.

The CBA? Not going to fix the problems. But the process to get a CBA is currently torturing the company, the pilots and all the non-pilot workers. There is a great chance it's even threatening the future of the same.

Union busting? Nope... the union is at Flight Options to stay, however long the future is there. But it's a clear lesson to all the others how messy and miserable union kool-aide drinkers are.

Even after the CBA is passed, the whiners on this board won't go away. The union isn't the fix all, and if you aren't happy there, why stay?

yes your right, im sure NJ would pay for my free health care, 7 on 7 off schedule, my vacation all cause they are filled with really nice people in management.

friggin union sucks.....

 

[realityman]

I have B19 on ignore, and these threads now have a bit more coherence because of it.

But I want to thank you, brokeflyer, for quoting him above. Seriously. Not meant in a sarcastic way at all.

Why? Because that, by far and away, is the dumbest thing B19 has posted yet.

Absolutely EVERYTHING he mentions in his post we have at NJA exactly BECAUSE it's in our CBA. There is practically nothing in our CBA that we have because NJA management gave it to us out of the generosity of their hearts.

Thanks for making the case for a good CBA yet again, B19!

FLOPS pilots: The road to a good CBA is HARD! B19 says quit, and that the union is bad because things are rough. Well, few things in life that are worth having are acquired easily.

Easy road= status quo. If that's good enough for you, then end this turmoil now.

Hard road= bigger payoff.

The union is YOU! It's your choice.

 

[fischman]

Any pilot can just go out and make money. If it was all about the money and you didn't care about the infrastructure, everybody on this board would be working for a legacy carrier knowing that the final payoff will greatly exceed anything they would ever make at a fractional, including NJ.

You crack me up.

Have you been to the Majors section of FI.com recently?

You truly have NO CLUE what you are talking about. :nuts:

I seriously think you are mentally unstable. You are not living in the real world. The airlines are cutting pay, and jobs left and right. No one in their right mind would want to work for an airline right now. That model is broken.

 

[Galaxy]

I guess the salt air in Hilton Head is messing with Don(B19)'s mind.

The Legacy Carrier dream.....ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[imacdog]

B's (Don's?) posts are sounding more desperate every day. I can't believe Options management is wasting money on him. Good luck with the contract negotiations guys.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You crack me up.

Have you been to the Majors section of FI.com recently?

You truly have NO CLUE what you are talking about. :nuts:

I seriously think you are mentally unstable. You are not living in the real world. The airlines are cutting pay, and jobs left and right. No one in their right mind would want to work for an airline right now. That model is broken.

Recently? I've actually worked at a major and lived through it during the real tough times. Did you?

Your smug right now thinking that the fractional/corporate world is the end all for a career pilot. What is happening in the airline world will filter to your little world also.

It wasn't all that long ago that corporate didn't pay crap and the airlines were the ONLY place where a pilot could make a decent living over the long term.

Even now, while the overall pay band has adusted itself slightly, a career pilot operating senior equipment at an airline will always make more and have a better schedule than corporate.

If you think that the fuel prices will not flow backward and begin to cut back corporate flying, the only one in this conversation that mentally unstable is you.

Then, we'll see how the union treats you. My guess is that you'll be treated a lot worse than the airline guys were under identical circumstances.

There is less competition and more independant operators within the industry and a million guys out there that will be willing to fly in your spot for a lot less money which will be more than they make now.

As soon as the hiccup occurs, I'll be here to say, "I told you so."

The value of any union implodes as soon as the going gets tough. Always has, always will be. Unions are opportunists. Take while the going is good, refuse to give back when it's important. Thus, it's pinning the company into a corner which threatens the well being of all, including the union.

 

[fischman]

B19,

Stop. Breathe. Think...


Corporate jobs always paid well.

Airlines don't pay squat. The big paying legacy jobs aren't there anymore, and when they were there it took 20 years of crappy planes and crappy schedules with crappy vacation awards to get there.

Airlines are barely surviving, and many are not making it.

Also, if you read through my posts you will see that I know the fractionals are not immune to the fuel crunch. I NEVER said otherwise.

"Even now, while the overall pay band has adjusted itself slightly, a career pilot operating senior equipment at an airline will always make more and have a better schedule than corporate."
In a given year will a 777 pilot at Delta make more than me? Sure. How much did that same pilot make 10 years into his career? 20? How many years on furlough did he have? At the end of my career, I will have made more money and have less stress.

Schedule? Are you serious? What do you know about our schedules? You don't even work for a fractional right??? That isn't even an argument as it is completely subjective. A good schedule to one person might be crap for another.

"Recently? I've actually worked at a major and lived through it during the real tough times. Did you?"Yes. Recently. As in within the past week? There is not a positive thread there. Doom and gloom. (Rightfully so). And yes. I have some furlough time in my past. (By the way. I couldn't help but notice you used the word "worked." I thought you currently "work" at a non-union airline. I guess I found another lie huh? OR did you get laid off again? Who are you going to blame it on this time???)

I can't believe you actually work for an airline. Whoever hired you really screwed up. You are not living in reality. :nuts: You are not sane.

Seriously. Stop. Breathe. Think.

 

[Galaxy]

Here he goes again acting like the Village Idiot again. The sky is falling.. The sky is falling...
It isn't even entertaining anymore....
Hey the end of the month is here.. can we close the doors now?

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19,

Stop. Breathe. Think...


Corporate jobs always paid well.

Airlines don't pay squat. The big paying legacy jobs aren't there anymore, and when they were there it took 20 years of crappy planes and crappy schedules with crappy vacation awards to get there.

Airlines are barely surviving, and many are not making it.

Also, if you read through my posts you will see that I know the fractionals are not immune to the fuel crunch. I NEVER said otherwise.

"Even now, while the overall pay band has adjusted itself slightly, a career pilot operating senior equipment at an airline will always make more and have a better schedule than corporate."
In a given year will a 777 pilot at Delta make more than me? Sure. How much did that same pilot make 10 years into his career? 20? How many years on furlough did he have? At the end of my career, I will have made more money and have less stress.

Schedule? Are you serious? What do you know about our schedules? You don't even work for a fractional right??? That isn't even an argument as it is completely subjective. A good schedule to one person might be crap for another.

"Recently? I've actually worked at a major and lived through it during the real tough times. Did you?"Yes. Recently. As in within the past week? There is not a positive thread there. Doom and gloom. (Rightfully so). And yes. I have some furlough time in my past. (By the way. I couldn't help but notice you used the word "worked." I thought you currently "work" at a non-union airline. I guess I found another lie huh? OR did you get laid off again? Who are you going to blame it on this time???)

I can't believe you actually work for an airline. Whoever hired you really screwed up. You are not living in reality. :nuts: You are not sane.

Seriously. Stop. Breathe. Think.

My reality helped to create the very rules you fly under. I've forgotten more about this industry than you'll ever know, from throwing bags to partcipating in rulemaking in DC. No ego here, simply fact. Not by choice, but I've drawn paychecks from the smallest piston commuter to a legacy carrier and everything in between to pay bills between layoffs due to union actions. My plan was to work my way up to a legacy and do that for my career, then I had my first layoff, then the second. Enough of that crap-I found a non-union carrier.

My time included fractional, corporate and a lot of consulting. I had the nuts to manage at all levels. You can't perceive what it's like to manage in a union enviorment in tough times because it's all about you fischman and what you and your union can bleed out of the employer.

When you are managing in that situation, you have to keep everything in front of you. The non-union employees, the shareholders, the passengers and the local community that depends on what you do. You need to do all this while keeping safety where it needs to be. When you are handcuffed by a union contract that would rather see the company go out of business than do what's best for the entire company, the odds of success are stacked against you and everybody else. Have you been in that situation or have you indeed not had the nuts to manage at a high level? It's clear, you can't handle the truth.

What have you done for your industry today?

To respond on your pointing out the word "worked", yes, I WORKED for a major, right up the pilot's union destroyed the infrastructure where I was and I was lucky enough to fall into a non-union carrier. It was luck and a lot of research. In the long run the disassembly of my area actually hurt the union at that carrier.

It's not doom and gloom, but the fracs will be hit no different than the airlines. When they are hit, the exact same things that make legacy carriers unattractive now will be the same at fractionals unless they have the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome. Union contracts prevent that, the legacy carriers are living and breathing proof of that.

It's not management that has made legacy carriers falter, it's working around massive union contracts, just like in the auto industry and a host of others.

 

[brokeflyer]

well $hit if id knew that i woulda had you been my instructor.....

I flew every small airplane and large airplane, I worked for every major airline in the world. Im so cool i wanna fck myself....lol


I dont know whether to offer youa cookie or a tissue.

give it a rest already.

 

[dime line]

what a moron

 

[fischman]

Did I say anything about unions?

Is B19 capable of more than one thought?

I don't think so...

Get over it.

Stop. Breathe. Think...

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Did I say anything about unions?

Is B19 capable of more than one thought?

I don't think so...

Get over it.

Stop. Breathe. Think...

Hi from Vacation...

...Fisch, you might want to tell him to stop breathing...

...Back to Vacation.

Happy Fourth, Brothers and Sisters.

 

[fischman]

Hi from Vacation...

...Fisch, you might want to tell him to stop breathing...

...Back to Vacation.

Happy Fourth, Brothers and Sisters.

.....:bomb:

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Stay strong!!

Here's the real kicker - suppose you finally upgrade after 8 years. You would think that you would be paid at the 8 year captain rate right?

Nope not at FLOPs, it's you first year as captain so you are paid FIRST year captain pay! That's how it works now and that's how I read the 'comprehensive' proposal.

This place is a joke!

WOW!!! Now that's putting the screws to the pilot group. Sure their (management) bonus $$ is not effected that way.

Remember, the fights will be hard but winning the war will be worth said hard fights. Stay strong, surpress the dead wood within the ranks and have a rewarding victory in the end.

Best of luck!!!!