Flight Options Or Asa????

[AA717driver]

Having extensive experience in "121 airplanes", I would say definitely go with the airline job--if this were 1998.

Now, if you start with a commuter, you compete with all the captains at all the other commuters plus military guys plus furloughed airline types like me and my several thousand highly qualified friends for that golden ring of a job at one of a handful of non-bankrupt airlines.

You could gamble that ASA will be one of the surviving commuters down the road and make your bed there. There are worse fates.

Or, you could used your experience at FLOP's to ease into the corporate world. Network at FBO's, don't expect the moon and the stars from this business--let someone else be bitter. You don't have to make your first job your last. I worked at 4 commuters prior to getting my "last" job at TWA.

I believe there is more opportunity for a motivated individual with a positive attitude in the corporate arena. You just need to find a way to get experience to move up.TC

 

[gunfyter]

maybe

but where are the bulk of jobs? Are there as many jobs to be had in corporate aviation?

The jobs I have gotten I got but didn't KNOW anybody... just applied and let the resume do the talking. Can that be done in the corporate world? Perhaps... I did get called by the Chief Pilot at GE after simply sending a resume ... but I did not get hired.

 

[GVFlyer]

maybe

but where are the bulk of jobs? Are there as many jobs to be had in corporate aviation?

I dunno. I can help with the numbers for Gulfstreams:

Total aircraft

44 - G500/G550

190 - G-V

4 - G450

36 - G300/G400

500 - G-IV

200 - G-III

249 - G-II

1223 total jets X 1.5 pilots per seat (normal minimum corporate manning) equals, very conservatively, approximately 3669 Gulfstream jobs.


Part 121, right now, is a very risky proposition. I just read on the ALPA website that Independence is flying with less than 50% loads and is expected to file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in January. All of the legacy carriers are either in bankruptcy or on the verge of filing with the possible exception of Northwest whose pilots gave up their last raise and just agreed to another paycut of 18%. As of today, top pay at US Air is $145,000. Southwest is beginning to experience mature airline problems and has recently signed a contract with their flight attendants that they can't afford (according to financial analysts). ATA won't be able to make loan repayments in January. JetBlue stock has lost 50% of value in the last six months and no one knows how successful they will be after their sweetheart deal with EADS/Airbus comes to an end.

Bombardier will layoff 2,000 workers in the next nine months due primarily to languishing RJ sales even though Regional Jets are the new airline paradigm.

Tough choices...

GV

 

[gunfyter]

GV

You are right. But can you get those corporate jobs without help from the inside?

 

[spitfiremk8]

For all the Corpoarte guys, keep in mind that the average corporate department (that means not all of them) folds up in 2.8 years (NBAA). I can tell you that I am leaving my corporate job flying a brand new Hawker 800 XP to go to ASA (and did not think about it twice). Not saying that all corporate jobs are bad. Another thing for people wanting to go fly 121: don't wait until you're old! I see too many guys that are good friends of mind that are now past 60 and have regrets that they never tried (most of them).


Just my 2 cts.

 

[NJAowner]

Falcon Capt

Raj -- I don't know you, but from the basis of knowledgable and informative posts I think FalconCapt has forgotten more about flying than you ever knew. He is informative, respectful, never slings mud, and is quite frankly a class act. I'm sorry, but I do not think you appear even close to that.

Maybe you are a great pilot, it just doesn't show here.

Fly safe.

 

[sleepy]

This is officially the dumbest comment I have ever read on flightinfo.

I have a new candidate for my ignore list.

I hope I am still on your list.

I hate to agree with English, but she is right on this one. I have flown for two 121 airlines and two large corporate operations. Both airline jobs had their moments of fun, but the pay, benifits, QOL, and job security are much better in a good corporate job (like the one I have now).

 

[rajflyboy]

NJA Owner

Its widely understood in the flying business that an Airline Job is more sought after than a Corporate flying job. The events of 9/11 have changed that to an extent. I would be willing to bet most of today's pilots would still prefer to be in an airline job over a corporate job.

Sorry but this is a fact! Its not about being a class act. Its about pure facts!

Its nothing against you the customer. Having a known schedule and other factors typically make Airline flying a better job. Safety is a biggy as well. Most airline's fly into larger airports with better approach's and the pilots are more familiar with the airports too.

Another thing to consider:

Corporate Job and a Fractional Job are two different animals as well.


Falcon Captain doesn't appear to have had any Airline Experience in his background >> so how can he understand this subject?????

 

[JetCapt69]

door greeter?

Get out of aviation, that is the only SAFE bet anymore.

 

[English]

I hope I am still on your list.

Nope. I took you off when you came to your senses and left ASA for corporate.

I figured we now have at least SOMETHING in common.

 

[waveoff]

Back to the original subject...

Mark, if I was you I would take ASA over FLOPs. The only way to get ahead here is if you're an ex-military, a$$ kissing, yes man. If an individual is all of those things then FLOPs is not such a bad deal. I've flown 121, Fractional and Corporate. Operationally speaking, there was more order in the way things were run at the 121 airline. Everyone is different though. Personally, I like knowing where I'm always flying to. With a Fractional or Coporate job you never really know...and this appeals to some people. Me, I don't like suprises. Plus, there seemed to be more camaraderie at the 121 job. If you really want to go with a Fractional I would suggest something other than THIS place where backdoor politics is SOP. Citation Shares maybe? Good luck to you with whatever you decide to do.

 

[FracCapt]

Nope. I took you off when you came to your senses and left ASA for corporate.

So...what are you insinuating about a person that leaves the corporate world(say, flying a CJ) to go to a 121 carrier? Hmmmmm?

 

[English]

So...what are you insinuating about a person that leaves the corporate world(say, flying a CJ) to go to a 121 carrier? Hmmmmm?

Crazy, I guess!



I've always enjoyed both corporate and airline flying. I don't think I'll ever be classified as an "airline" pilot or a "corporate" pilot. I'll probably continue to do both as long as I can.

 

[WrknStff]

Have you guys gone to the regional forum and read the answers to the exact same question over there (it's easy to find, it has the exact same title)? If you haven't, you should. Lot of ASA types saying by all means go the fractional route. Grass is always greener somewhere else in aviation than where you work right now.