Flight Options negotiations??

[FRLWD]

Union contracts tend to pit one group against another.

How about a bonus created by FLOPS management, which pays an incentive to pilots only for flying X amount of legs per day. No one in scheduling/dispatch was offered any money for their part. Most of the pilots never achieved the bonus either, it was simply a carrot created to cover "high demand". Management doesn't discriminate, they step on all employees to achieve their goals to do more with less.

 

[FRLWD]

When it's all said and done, everybody loses, even the pilots.

You're right..........I'll bet the NJA pilots felt like such loosers when they recieved their retro pay. And I'm sure they sink lower, when at the end of the month they realize they did'nt pay a dime for insurance. And when they get paid OT for working holidays, maby they're thoughts grow darker still. Let's not discuss what goes through their minds when they duty on before 8am.

I pity them................I truely do.

 

[pilotpat]

You're right..........I'll bet the NJA pilots felt like such loosers when they recieved their retro pay. And I'm sure they sink lower when at the end of the month they realize they did'nt pay a dime for insurance. And when they get paid OT for working holidays they are having suisidal thoughts. Let's not discuss what goes through their minds when they duty on before 8am.

I pity them................I truely do.

Makes me sad I'm in the pool, now...dam. :nuts:

 

[longrangekiller]

B-19 Flyer. Attrition is exactly what management wanted. Management was dumping the old acft and reducing the overall size of the fleet. Thus the need for dump pilots. If you can not fire them, you have to make them want to leave. And that is exactly what happened. Who won??


I left just before the management began dumping the older aircraft. Had I remained with FO, I would be in the 20's for seniority number.

Instead, I left for a flying job that pays about the same but with not even a third the work and no over nights.

 

[Galaxy]

Greener Pastures

You ask about greener pastures and then say that all places have thier problems. True-but believe me it is not hard at all to improve from the FLOPS standard. Most of the guys I have know that bailed out have better jobs now than when they were employed by FLOPS. While some may be making lower salaries due to starting at a new senority number for a reputable company. They are still much happier with thier new lifestyle and the future that awaits them in thier new jobs.

The IBT1108 has been blessed with great leadership across the board from NJA to FLOPS. They are all doing an excellent job voluntarily and have transparant accounting.

That place was doomed the day the MS walked in the door and brought all his crappy ex-airline cronies with him. As soon as all the pilots get on the solidarity wagon then they will have no choice but to sit down and negotiate a contract. How about just lock the doors and close up shop.

I too left after 6 years and now make more money, work about a third the time and rarely find myself in a hotel overnight. So the answer is-yea the grass is greener on the other side and I wish I didn't waste any more time at FLOPS than I needed to. The positive side to FLOPS is the pilots.. they are the one and only asset to that company-even if they do not recognize it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You ask about greener pastures and then say that all places have thier problems. True-but believe me it is not hard at all to improve from the FLOPS standard. Most of the guys I have know that bailed out have better jobs now than when they were employed by FLOPS. While some may be making lower salaries due to starting at a new senority number for a reputable company. They are still much happier with thier new lifestyle and the future that awaits them in thier new jobs.

The IBT1108 has been blessed with great leadership across the board from NJA to FLOPS. They are all doing an excellent job voluntarily and have transparant accounting.

That place was doomed the day the MS walked in the door and brought all his crappy ex-airline cronies with him. As soon as all the pilots get on the solidarity wagon then they will have no choice but to sit down and negotiate a contract. How about just lock the doors and close up shop.

I too left after 6 years and now make more money, work about a third the time and rarely find myself in a hotel overnight. So the answer is-yea the grass is greener on the other side and I wish I didn't waste any more time at FLOPS than I needed to. The positive side to FLOPS is the pilots.. they are the one and only asset to that company-even if they do not recognize it.

This post is all the good and that bad that I have been stating all along. The good is that everybody has individual choices. You made a choice to leave what you didn't personally like and you found a better situation because of it just like me. If you aren't happy, find someplace more appropriate. On the bad side, if you aren't happy it doesn't give you the right to impose your will on the rest of the employees. What you don't like might be the exact reason others work there and they might not want it changed. Remember, that not all employees are pilots. Inviting a union on the property affects the entire company, not just the pilots. Because I like working for a non-union carrier doesn't mean that I have the right to impose my will on others. If a pilot wants to work for a union carrier, there are plenty of them hiring. Find one. Just don't go into a non-union shop and decide after you get there that it sucks and think that a union is always going to make it better. My personal experience indicates that it usually doesn't.

 

[GerryG]

Wow...It looks like we now have our very own Family Guy. Yeah! I wonder if "B" stands for Bob? Is this the 19th incarnation of Bob's union-busting online persona?

What I love best is the circular logic of B19. "Individual choice" is good, but making the "individual choice" to organize or support a union is bad.

Choose to work at a company that already has a union if that's what your into he says.

How does he think those union's got there to begin with? At some point someone had to make the "individual choice" to organize it.

I'm going to suggest to B19 that he make the "individual choice" to butt out of our business.

One way or another our union's not going anywhere, so get used to it "B", I mean Bob.

 

[TurboHonda]

This post is all the good and that bad that I have been stating all along. The good is that everybody has individual choices. You made a choice to leave what you didn't personally like and you found a better situation because of it just like me. If you aren't happy, find someplace more appropriate. On the bad side, if you aren't happy it doesn't give you the right to impose your will on the rest of the employees. What you don't like might be the exact reason others work there and they might not want it changed. Remember, that not all employees are pilots. Inviting a union on the property affects the entire company, not just the pilots. Because I like working for a non-union carrier doesn't mean that I have the right to impose my will on others. If a pilot wants to work for a union carrier, there are plenty of them hiring. Find one. Just don't go into a non-union shop and decide after you get there that it sucks and think that a union is always going to make it better. My personal experience indicates that it usually doesn't.

I’m starting to believe that your “personal experience” could be measured in months, rather than years. By using the trite cliché “if you don’t like it, then leave”, you are over simplifying a problem that runs much deeper than you would apparently like.

For the most part, the organizers of the union at FLOPS were senior pilots that acted in self defense against the actions of management that came on the property years after those same pilots had committed the remainder of their careers to the company.

If any one group is imposing their will on another group, it would seem that our carpetbagger management is the imposer rather than the imposed.

 

[hydrarkt]

Yes, it seems that FO's "legal team" has identified this site as a "site of interest" and assigned it's own Family Guy! It would be interesting to find out who he is. We know who FG is. It helps to see things more clearly

 

[gunfyter]

We know who 19 is....

 

[Galaxy]

Hey now babbling B19Flyer dont take my words out of context. I went to FLOPS when they did not have a union and things were good then. The CEO kept his promises to me. It wasn't until the last regime came to play is when life at FLOPS became unbearable. It wasn't that I chose to find another job-the one I had was ringing the "This job sucks meter" bells. Now you may say that I could be a negative person and that I was bringing the company down. However, the exact opposite is what it was for me. I gave my all to that company working long hours and going the extra distance. Yet I found myself being questioned and on the verge of being punished for operating per the regs and AFM. I didn't write the rules-I just have to obey them. I got along with everyone within the company and I was the first one to offer to buy the beers after a hard day. I supported the union from the begining and I even paid dues from the day the vote results were announced. I paid through the summer when I wasn't required to do so, I even paid every month-right up till the month I left even though I knew I was leaving 6 months ago. I pay my way-do you? The union was voted in and gets stronger every day because the unfair practices mgt has pulled. Its not just a contract for fair compensation but more so for fair work rules. A quick example could be a common situation ie fatigue. If you decide that you are just too tired fly you muster the courage to admit your mental and physical defeat and get told by a dispatcher that you have to talk to an APM who will ask you how tired are you? Or put you in touch with the PM. When is enough, enough? When someone decides its not worth the fight to call fatigue and they make a stupid mistake and kill someone? They mgt team has become so two faced singing the safety song and when faced with the loss of a crew or plane they push you to go further. Not very safe in my song book. A crew calling fatigue or sick should be the end of it-its not-try calling in sick at FLOPS-you will find yourself mandated for a DR visit per the company. As far as you working at a non union shop-well I guess you may need to apply at CS or Avantair. I think the union is there to stay at FLOPS-I hope that either the mgt team sits down and negotiates a real contract or the Union helps close and lock the doors at FLOPS.

On another note they keep focusing thier attention on little things like fuel savings, pilots productivity, metrics. They should put thier ear to the ground and hear the owners talking. If an owner will say things like "I hate this company" or I own a share of Sh!t!. They are just waiting for thier contracts to expire and then that money will be gone. Just take a look at the morale wake left behind from evey stop the MS has been. Flops is just another bullet item on his obituary.
B19-I still go to Dallas for training-I will buy you a beer there and you can cry on my shoulder.