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Flight Options and Net Jets...

Toad4

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I am curious about a few things that I have seen posted on this board. I will try to divide them into seperate points.

1. Several people, presumably EJ pilots, have commented on the soon to be demise of Flight Options. I have seen no Options pilots defend or retaliate on these comments. I am curious as to the basis of these comments.

2. "Flight Options Board" Is there a seperate Message board for Flight Options pilots? Is this why I see so few of them post here?

3. What is the deal with the EJA contract? The pay rates I have seen posted at the EJA website are lower than the Flight Options pay scales. It does not seem that the union is helping much and I am curious if there is talk of a strike yet. Note to EJA people: This question is not intended to be insulting so please refrain from supperflous comments.

4. I am not clear on this one so bear with me. Is there a provision at EJ for aircraft to be older than 10 yrs? If not that would require current owners to sell the aircraft and buy new ones. What will this do to the business jet market and is it realistic to expect a loss of clientel to Flight Options and/or the "pre-owned" market?

I appreciate everyones input on this. I realize that I would be lucky to fly for either EJA or Flight Options and both would be a huge step up from flying 135 cargo Lears in pay, lifestyle, and benefits. I am just trying to get some more information so that I can make well informed decisions as to my future career path.

Thanks again,
Toad
 

sweptwingz

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Re: Flight Options and Net Jets. Reply

Toad4 said:
I am curious about a few things that I have seen posted on this board. I will try to divide them into seperate points.

1. Several people, presumably EJ pilots, have commented on the soon to be demise of Flight Options. I have seen no Options pilots
defend or retaliate on these comments. I am curious as to the basis of these comments.

I for one think Options will be around for a while, but the up and coming
RSVM requirements are really going to "bite them on the hiney" when
all of their OLD airplanes need REQUIRED 200K-300K avionics refits.

2. "Flight Options Board" Is there a seperate Message board for Flight Options pilots? Is this why I see so few of them post here?

I simply think that more Netjets pilots post here due to the size of
the company. They do have their own board...lots of griping there.

3. What is the deal with the EJA contract? The pay rates I have seen posted at the EJA website are lower than the Flight Options pay scales. It does not seem that the union is helping much and I am curious if there is talk of a strike yet. Note to EJA people: This question is not intended to be insulting so please refrain from supperflous comments.

We are Re-writing the ENTIRE contract, line for line. I assure you the
Union helps our pilots. We have several pilots that owe their jobs to
Teamsters intervention on "disciplinary cases". At Options when they're
mad at you, you're GONE...no appeal, no second chance.

4. I am not clear on this one so bear with me. Is there a provision at EJ for aircraft to be older than 10 yrs? If not that would require current owners to sell the aircraft and buy new ones. What will this do to the business jet market and is it realistic to expect a loss of clientel to Flight Options and/or the "pre-owned" market?

You will never see a 10 year old Netjets aircraft. We sell 'em before then.
We sold all of our Citation IIs....the market gobbled 'em right up!

I appreciate everyones input on this. I realize that I would be lucky to fly for either EJA or Flight Options and both would be a huge step up from flying 135 cargo Lears in pay, lifestyle, and benefits. I am just trying to get some more information so that I can make well informed decisions as to my future career path.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I think Options, Netjets, and
Citation Shares, are all good outfits. For now, I'd avoid Flexjets.

Thanks again,
Toad
 

flydog

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At Flight Options once an airplane reaches 5 yrs old it is refurbished and it goes into the preowned fleet. The owner has a choice of getting a new airplane or sticking with the old one.

All the airplanes carry (or will carry once they are all retrofitted) a plaque stating the manufacture date so the owner knows how old the airplane is.

I asked the question at the interview regarding the impact of RVSM on their aircraft and the response was that most of their preowned fleet is RVSM ready with the exception of the older Beechjets and Hawkers. The CII is being phased out and replaced with the CV. Their answer was that RVSM would have minimal impact on them as by the time it is implemented most of their aircraft will be RVSM as avionics are upgraded, airplanes are phased and replaced with new ones. Every preowned aircraft that enters the fleet is completely refurbished with the latest avionics, new interior and paint so RVSM would be part of the upgrade. All the pilots would have to certified as would be the case at EJA.

For most aircraft that already have dual ADC and newer avionics the RVSM conversion is minimal maybe 100-150k. Its the older Lears, Westwinds, and Hawkers that are going to cost big money to convert and none of these are operated by FO or Net Jets.

Although you didnt ask 91(k) was also my concern. However FO plans to operate under 135 if 91(k) is implemented. Since their maintenance is already conducted under 135 and their pilots are trained to 135 standards the change would be like flipping a light switch. The only difference in ops from the pilot's point of view would be having to do a weight and balance, duty limitations, and a load manifest.

There is a Flight Options message board its at

http://pub24.ezboard.com/bflightoptions17097

Keep in mind FO has 890 pilots while EJA has over 2000 and over half of the pilots at FO at ex-RTA guys. This may be why you dont see a lot of them here

As far as the demise of Flight Options I wouldnt bet on that one. Everyone I know that works there is flying their butts off 80-90 hrs a month, overtime, etc. If you have a subscription to Flight Explorer filter our EJA and FO aircraft. Youll see FO has about the same number of a/c in the air as EJA at any given time even though they have half the a/c. Flying is where the money is made and FO aircraft seem to be in the air an awful lot.

Just earlier today there were 48 FO airplanes in the air and 55 EJA and about 20 Flexjet. This number seems to be fairly constant day in and day out.
 

EMB145

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Great Post Flydog

Thanks.
 

tdvalve

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Flydog, good informative post about FO. But, the Flight Explorer comparison on flights might be a little misleading. Neither EJM nor NJI flights use the "Execjet" id on flight plans, although both are part of the Netjet organization. Further, the Boeings file using their "N" number for all flights, and all EJA aircraft on international flights do likewise.
 

flydog

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Youre right I didnt include EJI or EJM. I consider those two entities to be separate from EJA but I didnt know about the international legs. I was trying to come up with a usage rate for a/c based on EJA's fleet and FOs fleet which is about half the size. I didnt think that the BBJ legs and international legs would sway that number considerably.

I guess I could also filter out by QS tail # and exclude non-turbojet and Citation II
 

tdvalve

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I'm not so sure NJA's fleet is twice the size of FO. The numbers usually published (400+ airplanes and 2000+ pilots) are for all of Netjets, not just NJA. NJA had 257 airplanes and about 1500 pilots at the end of 2001. Probably somewhat less than 300 airplanes and 1700 pilots now.
 

NJA Capt

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flydog-
Actually, the international legs for "N"JA would be VERY considerable. "N"JI is also part of the NetJets equation and would have to be included. All of the aircraft are dispatched through Columbus. They are all very much NetJets.


tdvalve-
I don't know a current total on Flight Ops, if someone knows, please post them. The NetJets fleet is above 350+ aircraft, not including the EJM, Europe and Saudi fleets. This does included 50 Gulfstreams.
 

publisher

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point

and the point of all this is,

both are excellent companies and have a good business concept, have good management.

Look at the bright side, they even employed Flightdog.
 
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