Flight Instructor Airplane Limitations in a Sim/Training Device

[AC560]

I'm quoting your own quotes, and you must be able to see from these regulations that a CFI must hold an instrument instructor rating to provide instrument instruction towards an IR. Is that what we're talking about?

And in the rest of the post "You review 61.193 and you see privileges. Under 61.195(a)-(c) you see limitations."

The only limitation placed on a CFI is that in order to give instrument flight instruction they must hold a valid instrument instructor rating. Note again it is specific it says flight instruction. Short of this restriction all other privileges are granted.

Again I am not trying to debate what we all assume this should be. I am trying to look for a definitive answer in the FAR's, not speculation.

 

[nosehair]

OK, look again at 61.65(A)(5) "receive training from an authorized instructor.."

It says "training", not "flight training",...

"...in an aircraft, sim, or FTD..."

"..on the areas of operation in paragraph (C).."


Paragraph (C) outlines the "training", whether in an aircraft, sim, or FTD, with an "authorized instructor", so if the training is towards an IR, don't you think the aviation community, as a whole, would think that the authorized instructor towards an IR would be a CFI-I?

61.65(e) talks about the use of a sim or FTD to meet some of the time requirements, if the training is done with an "authorized instructor".

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

I would seriously call Flight safety and ask how they train in there sims in nterms of this question. They, as you know, deal with these problems more often then you or I. Good luck and let us know if you get any good intel.

 

[brokeflyer]

I would seriously call Flight safety and ask how they train in there sims in nterms of this question. They, as you know, deal with these problems more often then you or I. Good luck and let us know if you get any good intel.

They can do it in the sim because the applicant is already certificated. Also, a flightsafety instructor needs to have authorization from the FAA to do ANY type of flightcheck. This authorization superceedd any flight instructor requirement. A FSI instructors limitation for this ability is they can ONLY do instruction at FSI in a sim.

They can't go into YOUR airplane and give instruction.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

O.K. thanks for the info. But was the question in relation to instrument instruction in an approved sim ? Not all aplicants that go to flight safety are certificated. I've been there many times to see the various types of applicants go through training. I guess the answer might be the level or automation of the sim....I don't know, but thanks.

 

[brokeflyer]

A cfi can do instrument instruction, but he/she CAN'T give an endorsment for the practical test. The simulator has nothing to do with it.

You can do 50 hours of "instrcution" from someone who has an expired cert. But you can't log it as dual and he/she can't endorse the logbook.

 

[AC560]

OK, look again at 61.65(A)(5) "receive training from an authorized instructor.." It says "training", not "flight training",... "...in an aircraft, sim, or FTD..." "..on the areas of operation in paragraph (C).." Paragraph (C) outlines the "training", whether in an aircraft, sim, or FTD, with an "authorized instructor",

61.1 defines authorized instructor. 61.193 lists the privledges of instructors. 61.195 (a)-(c) lists the limitations. It is clearly listed in black and white. As written there is no way other to read it except that a flight instructor can give instrument sim time, ground time, and can endorse for the instrument written. The only restriction placed upon the flight instructor is he/she cannot give "Flight Instruction.

61.65 (a)(5) lists several categories the first of which is an aircraft which clearly would be flight instruction. As such an instrument instructor rating would be required. Listed after aircraft though is flight simulator or flight training device, it is these forms of training which we are dicussing.

don't you think the aviation community, as a whole, would think that the authorized instructor towards an IR would be a CFI-I?

Again I have said over and over I fundamentally agree with the concept that only a II should be able to the same way I agree with only an IGI should be able to give instrument ground instruction. Everyone including the FAA is in agreement they botched and aside from ground instruction for IPC or endorsing for the knowledge test and AGI can do all functions of an IGI (including giving instrument sim/ground time).

This isn't a matter of what I think it is what I can document to a student.

A cfi can do instrument instruction, but he/she CAN'T give an endorsment for the practical test. The simulator has nothing to do with it. You can do 50 hours of "instrcution" from someone who has an expired cert. But you can't log it as dual and he/she can't endorse the logbook.

Supporting regulations?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Why would anyone want sim instruction from a person with only an IGI or AGI? A CFII would most likely be much more knowledgeable all around.

 

[brokeflyer]

Supporting regulations?

You already put the reg up there......good job.

so do you understand now?

 

[AC560]

Why would anyone want sim instruction from a person with only an IGI or AGI? A CFII would most likely be much more knowledgeable all around.

Relevance to question is?

so do you understand now?

No and if I did I wouldn't have asked the question. It is apparent that nobody knows the specific answer to the question. I am reasonably certain that you need a instrument rating on your instructor certificate to give instrument instruction even though the writing of part 61 does not indicate that (as it also does not support a instrument instructor only giving any instrument instruction in an airplane, that power is granted by by 8900.1).

Unlike apparently most of the respondents on the thread though I can accept and give the answer I don't know and leave it at that. I had hoped somebody knew something I didn't and could point me the correct way.