Flight Academies

[Hobiehawker]

I have a friend who is looking into one of the flight academies that advertise getting hired at an airline in as little as 500 hours. I know there a few out there with this sort of program and my question is are they worth their investment. Has this really worked as well as they advertise.

 

[Flechas]

DON'T GO THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fly_Chick]

There is not one airline (Regional, National, Major) in the US that will hire someone as a pilot with 500 hours. Period!

These flight schools might have connections with cargo carriers, sightseeing carriers, etc. that will hire with 500 hours. Make sure your friend is aware of "which" airlines they are placing people with. Get exact details from the flight schools, numbers, names, references, people that your friend can call who have been hired with 500 hours.

Be very wary of a flight school that promises this.

 

[User546]

Be Aware, Be VERY VERY Aware!

Most of the time even researching most of these academies still don't reveal the traps and the problems that occur at these places. Each academy is only out after one thing... MONEY.

I went to Pan Am, and if your interested in my opinions on it, feel free to do a search for that using Mr Searchy, and you'll find my already well documented opinion on it.

And I'm not one of these people that are bitter because I got kicked out an academy, etc. I just knew when to cut my losses, and tried another route. I've since known way too many guys that have gone thru different academies, mostly Pan am, and ahve come up WAY SHORT.

Probably the most legit program out there is the Mesa Air Pilot Development. All others, I'd stay far away from.

And since your already a pilot, you should explain to your friend hnow hard making ends meet is going to be when he comes out of an academy with $500-600 a MONTH loan payment!

Just my .02

 

[tom_rob]

Fly_chick, actually there is; we have a program here at FlightSafety, the "Direct Track Program." A student graduating from FlightSafety (approximately 200 hours) can apply for either ASA, American Eagle, or Expressjet. They interview with their chosen airline and are either accepted for the program or not. If they are accepted they start the loft training in the Seminole as a crew (25 hrs PIC each) learning the airline specific callouts, procedures, etc... Then they transition to our ERJ level D sim. After that, they have a checkride with the respective airline in the ERJ sim and then wait for a class date.
So yes, there are programs out there. Now your definately going to drop some serious cash on a program like this, and there are some that don't agree with it.
Where I stand... we'll leave that to your imagination.

Tom

 

[The_Russian]

FSI, GIA, and MAPD are all schools with programs like that which have proven results of getting people hired with low time.

My advice?

Be a CFI first, then use them to top your resume off.

 

[moxiepilot]

Fly_chick, actually there is; we have a program here at FlightSafety, the "Direct Track Program." A student graduating from FlightSafety (approximately 200 hours) can apply for either ASA, American Eagle, or Expressjet. They interview with their chosen airline and are either accepted for the program or not. If they are accepted they start the loft training in the Seminole as a crew (25 hrs PIC each) learning the airline specific callouts, procedures, etc... Then they transition to our ERJ level D sim. After that, they have a checkride with the respective airline in the ERJ sim and then wait for a class date.
So yes, there are programs out there. Now your definately going to drop some serious cash on a program like this, and there are some that don't agree with it.
Where I stand... we'll leave that to your imagination.

Tom

Tom -you know where that leaves your graduates of the program? 500 hours and unemployed. If I'm correct, most of that time is 1900 time, but you come out with no experience. My opinion - build your time up like everyone else as a cFI

 

[tom_rob]

Moxie, I am so absolutely confused by your statement...
1900 time???? What??? Unemployed??? Huh?
After your done with the checkride in the RJ sim you wait for your class date. I guess your unemployed for the next couple of months if thats what you mean?
And 500 hours and unemployed: try about 240+ and a job.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with these types of progams, just what FSI does.

Tom

 

[CapnVegetto]

Short and dirty version, just do a search on PFT and see what everyone says.

Now here's what nobody says:

Forget a second about the disrespect, and the "buying a job", and "not paying you dues", and all that stuff. Academies are CRAP...they always have been, and always will be. They claim that they have the best training, far from it. They'll make all kinds of lofty promises, but a lot of the times, they're CRAP. I had a friend get f--ked out of about $60K by one of these places....after I BEGGED him to come fly with me, I'd teach him for free, let him crash at my place for as long as he needed, etc.....and now he's kicking himself every day while trying to pay that back.

But anyway, just ignore all that PFT stuff for a moment, and look at it from a career standpoint. What you are doing is basically putting all your eggs in one basket. Going to ANY of the flight academies, no matter which one, is going to cost you about 2 to 3 times what it would cost you to get your ratings elsewhere. And I don't care what kind of crap they feed you, there is NO SUCH THING AS A GUARANTEED INTERVIEW. The airline could stop hiring. There could be another 9/11. They could decide to sever their relationship with the academy. Then what happens? You're f--ked. You've got a $60K promissory note to pay off, and you're not qualified to do ANYTHING. Look at what happened to the last batch of GIA guys at Pinnacle. The FAA said to Pinnacle, "You can't hire these 500 hour wonders anymore because of your safety record." So, Pinnacle HR found the latest batch of GIA guys in class, (most were in the sim at the time), snatched them out, and said "Sorry guys, we can't hire you anymore. Bye." So now, all these guys are on the street, with 500 hours, no CFI ticket, out about $30K, and NOT QUALIFIED TO DO ANYTHING. NO airlines will hire street people with 500 hours. ESPECIALLY not today, when there are a million FlyI guys looking for jobs, higher time CFI's that meet the mins, freight guys with a ton of piston PIC multi, etc. So now the only thing they can do is shell out another $10 K or so to get a CFI and instruct, (which is exactly what they were trying to avoid) or fly skydivers, tow banners, or traffic watch for basically no money.

Now take Example guy B. He instructed, flew freight for a while, then got on at a regional with about 1500 hours, an ATP, and about 400 multi. Same thing happens to him. "Sorry, we've stopped hiring. Bye." He's got the time and experience, so he's got OPTIONS. He can go to another regional. Fly more freight, instruct, maybe even get into a corporate or 135 job. Meanwhile, Example guy A with his 500 hours has NO OPTIONS. You can't get a job with 500 hours, unless it's a CFI job, so time to shell out more money.

Think! Use your head man.....don't buy all the bull$hit that the big academies (pilot factories) like to feed you. Yeah, if you go there, you've got a chance to fast track it to the airlines. But.....you'll be looked down upon by your collegues, possible blackballed for a future bigger airline job or corporate job by an anti-PFT interviewer, or screwed altogether if ANYTHING goes wrong.

Food for thought!

 

[rausda27]

CaptV,
I have to defend the FLightSafety direct track program as it shouldnt be generalized along with other programs such as GIA and MESA. As far as the guaranteed interview, there is such a thing. Our direct track students interview with the airline BEFORE starting the program, with no money out of pocket. Once they get hired they have a conditional offer of employment, which is the same letter that all new hires at ASA get. From there, all they have to do is complete the training at FlightSafety which has a near 100 % success rate, and then they get a class date. I got hired the old fashoned way by building my time in part 61 and 141 flight schools, but I think to each his own. If the program works, which it does, and you are financially able to commit, then why not. I have been involved with 10 or so direct track students as an instructor in the program and all of them completed the program, passed their checkrides in the ERJ and are all in class at ASA or already flying the line. I have spoken to line captains at ASA and asked about their experiences with them, and it was all positive.

 

[CapnVegetto]

CaptV,
I have to defend the FLightSafety direct track program as it shouldnt be generalized along with other programs such as GIA and MESA. As far as the guaranteed interview, there is such a thing. Our direct track students interview with the airline BEFORE starting the program, with no money out of pocket. Once they get hired they have a conditional offer of employment, which is the same letter that all new hires at ASA get. From there, all they have to do is complete the training at FlightSafety which has a near 100 % success rate, and then they get a class date. I got hired the old fashoned way by building my time in part 61 and 141 flight schools, but I think to each his own. If the program works, which it does, and you are financially able to commit, then why not. I have been involved with 10 or so direct track students as an instructor in the program and all of them completed the program, passed their checkrides in the ERJ and are all in class at ASA or already flying the line. I have spoken to line captains at ASA and asked about their experiences with them, and it was all positive.

Alright, I'm a little confused on this subject....

They interview with an airline BEFORE the program? Now are these just 250 hour Comm/ME guys? How do they get the interview? Does FS set it up? Do you just go to FS and say "OK, I want to interview with Eagle," they set it up, you interview, get hired, and hand over a bunch of $$$ to go through a program? Please explain it to me. I don't get it.

Thx

 

[indianboy7]

That's pretty much it.......the students have to go through FSI's commercial, instrument multi engine programs......then they give their resume to FlightSafety, who sends it to one of these airlines under the "direct track" header, and the airlines choose who they interview (watered down, but still an interview)...if they get "hired" by the airline, 25K in American funds gets transferred from their pocket to FSI's and their training begins.....they pass all the training and checkrides, they go fly a shiny jet....they screw up at any point...beginning, middle, or end.....and they go home.....without their 25 large....kinda shady imo, but it's business i guess....

Alright, I'm a little confused on this subject....

They interview with an airline BEFORE the program? Now are these just 250 hour Comm/ME guys? How do they get the interview? Does FS set it up? Do you just go to FS and say "OK, I want to interview with Eagle," they set it up, you interview, get hired, and hand over a bunch of $$$ to go through a program? Please explain it to me. I don't get it.

Thx

 

[CapnVegetto]

OK, so it's just your basic buy-a-job deal putting 250 hour commercial pilots in the right seat of RJ's? Don't EVEN get me started on that. Does sound kinda shady.....just another racket of making money.

 

[rausda27]

You apply for the program with FlightSafety. If you completed all your ratings there, then you then interview with ASA (or Eagle or ExpressJet). If you get a COE then you proceed with the next two phases of training. 25 hours crew IFR multi x-c, then into the ERJ level D. If you didnt complete your training at FS then you go through two phases prior to interviewing. These phases evaluate general piloting skill and instrument proficiency. If these phases are completed successfully, then you are able to interview with the airline and then start the actual direct track training. The requirements vary with each track. ASA requires commercial multi IFR with 100 hours in the past year, but express has a small hour requirement, I think around 400 hours. It isnt as simple as handing over the money. The training in the multi IFR phase is intensive and if you are not motivated, then you will wash out. Once this is complete the training moves into the ERJ level D, again, if you dont study and work hard, you wash out. Upon completion of the level D training you are adminstered a checkride by a company (ASA, Xjet, or AE) check captain. If you pass, you wait for a class date. I hope this answers your questions.

 

[Tater Salad]

Okay I'm gonna go ahead and throw my .02 cents in here.

I recently placed a posting on this board about these academies. I had SEVERAL career pilots tell me to stay away from them. These programs look really good on paper. But where is the true guarantee? The guys defending FlightSafety are saying "our direct track students," and "here at FSI." A bit of a biased opinion if you ask me since they might work there. If they are true to there word, then GREAT! I appologize for cutting on there program if that's the case. If they are a bunch of bull, then they ought to be run out of business. Nothing makes me more mad then hearing about somebody I know (and this has happened) going to an academy, dropping tens of thousands of dollars on training, and being screwed in the end. I sill get flamed up when I hear the same story from someone I don't know.

Another thing. I have been told by NUMEROUS people that it is better to be getting paid while earning all your hours rather then paying to earn them. I broke all the costs down for the FlightSafety program. If you start there to get your CIME, and then go into direct track, between the $45k tuition for CIME (for 200 hours or something like that is freaking ridiculous) and the $24k (or something in that neighborhood) for tuition, and living costs, you could be looking at an upwards of $70-$80k. Please explain to me how you live in that situation without sucking loans dry for high monthly payments for 10 years after you graduate?

Now take someone who is taking the local flight school route. They are probably living near or at home, they most likely have steady employment that generates an income, and once you get your CFI ratings, you can instruct, make some money (not a lot) and build your hours at the same time. What sounds better here? Not to mention you won't have to make $500 or $600 payments EVERY MONTH when your on your first year making around $21,000 annually. It's ahrd nough to live off of that without a massive loan payment every month.

I don't know and I don't care if there are people who don't agree with my views. I'm not trying to be arrogant either. I have done thorough research on several academies because I was thinking of going to one. Who knows. If one of these academies can step up and directly prove that there program works, then it just may be worth it (I might even look into it). But if it's just promises being thrown at you with no hard evidence, then stay away from it.

 

[SWA GUY]

Tater,

I'm a career pilot and I went to "one of those academies". I guess I did it wrong....

 

[Tater Salad]

I didn't say it was wrong to go. I was weighing it down mostly to cost.

If I offended you, then I appologize. Obviously the academy route worked for you.

Honestly, I hope that somebody can come out and directly prove that these academies have high job placement percentages. If that was the case, then I would consider an academy.

 

[SWA GUY]

Nah, you didn't offend me. No worries!