Flaps and the FAF

[aeronautic1]

Slats

Let's see in our G200, slats and kruegers below 250 knots, flaps 20 within 15 miles (speed check) of the FAF, gear down and flaps 40 at the FAF (unless on single eng approach of course). Look, if you are within the speed envelope of the flap settings on approach, use them. This will limit the amount of sudden pitch change on the approach from barley managable to suave, not to mention speed control! Remember, it's all about finesse factor.

 

[cessna_driver2]

Mini,
I did my Instrument in a 172r. I shot the approach at 100 kts w/ 10 degrees of flaps. I passed w/ no problems. Just be ready to explain why you choose to use the flaps.

The 141 school I went to taught us to have first 10 out. This does help slow you down. My first part 61 instructor always jumped my case when I put 10 degrees in above 100 kts. Every time I had to keep telling him that the first 10 is approved & placard at 110.

Try shooting the approach at 100kts w/ 10 degrees. It is a little faster but it helps keep it stable & more responsive.

2 more things to remember when you’re on your check ride. 1) You are PIC. Just be ready to explain why you did something. 2) They cannot grade you until the maneuver is complete.


Good luck

 

[Kaman]

Hello,

My personal opinion is that the airplane should be configured and stabilized at the final approach speed prior to the FAF. Of course, how far from the FAF is a a function of the speed of the aircraft in which one is flying. With the airplane configured and on-speed a simple power (remember attitude flying?) adjustment should have you coming down the ILS or descending to MDA with a lot less fuss than trying to configure, 5-T's and the rest. I taught it this way and never heard a complaint from the examiner I sent my instrument students to.

Regards,

Ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[minitour]

Hello,

My personal opinion is that the airplane should be configured and stabilized at the final approach speed prior to the FAF. Of course, how far from the FAF is a a function of the speed of the aircraft in which one is flying. With the airplane configured and on-speed a simple power (remember attitude flying?) adjustment should have you coming down the ILS or descending to MDA with a lot less fuss than trying to configure, 5-T's and the rest. I taught it this way and never heard a complaint from the examiner I sent my instrument students to.

Regards,

Ex-Navy Rotorhead

So Power controls the descent down the Glide Slope on the ILS? Cuz I guess thats another thread, but different people are teaching pitch and power...just kinda curious...

Obviously I figured I'd have to make a power reduction while on the descent because otherwise I'd be over my 90kts...

So its
1. Establish the plane on the approach speed prior to the FAF
2. Set the approach flaps *just* prior to the FAF (in the 172-obviously if its a faster/larger aircraft you've gotta plan ahead)
3. Power setting to maintain the GS at 90kts (so NOT Pitch Power Trim?)

Confusing...I guess I never really gave it much thought as to HOW I went down the glide slope...I just kinda do it adjusting Pitch and Power and Trim as needed...

Thanks for the help folks! Really appreciate it!

-mini

 

[Kaman]

Hello,

And, a good question...Think of it this way. You have the airplane configured and trimmed for 90 knots. Glideslope comes in, and you reduce the power to track the glideslope. The airplane is trimmed for 90 knots, and it will naturally pitch down to seek that trimmed airspeed. What is required is a good understanding of the airplane you are flying and the proper pitch/power relationships for the various profiles (non-precision descent, ILS, etc...). Hope this makes sense?

regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[minitour]

Hello,

And, a good question...Think of it this way. You have the airplane configured and trimmed for 90 knots. Glideslope comes in, and you reduce the power to track the glideslope. The airplane is trimmed for 90 knots, and it will naturally pitch down to seek that trimmed airspeed. What is required is a good understanding of the airplane you are flying and the proper pitch/power relationships for the various profiles (non-precision descent, ILS, etc...). Hope this makes sense?

regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Awesome!!!

Yeah, when you explain it that way it makes perfect sense...kinda like a "make the airplane work FOR you rather than you work for the airplane" kinda thing...

Thanks!!

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

Just my own $0.02, but I like to have the airplane configured for the approach prior to crossing the FAF. That means that the gear is down, approach flaps are set (10 degrees in this case), and the pre-landing checklist is complete (prop full forward, etc.) I'm sorry, but tracking a both a localizer and glideslope is not the place to be making wild configuration changes. I always thought that the purpose of the intermediate approach segment was to get the airplane stablized in the landing configuration and at the approach airspeed.

Anyone that would fail you for that... have them show you in the PTS where it says that applies, if they still fail you, put a stop payment on that DE's check.. and contact your nearest FSDO.

Dang straight.

-Goose

 

[Kaman]

Well said, Goose Egg...

I find it very difficult to believe than an examiner would bust someone for flying an approach in the manner in which you teach it. It certainly defies all the logic behind that "stabilized approach concept" that the FAA advocates.
Instrument flying is so much easier when you plan ahead, and act ahead...I'd also suggest going out with an instructor and going through various profiles and noting the pitch/power targets. Then it's a matter of minor adjustments...Just like the FAA also advocates..."establish, trim, cross-check and adjust". I've told my students that 90% of instrument flying is contained in the 8-9 pages of attitude instrument flying in the IFH.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead