First

[UnAnswerd]

Helicopters are cool because they can hover motionless. The landing area only need be as large as the aircraft itself. Helicopters make everything possible. If your truck falls through the ice and is 300' underwater, a helicopter can get it out.....

 

[jknight8907]

All right! We got the forum!

Yeah, helicopters are very cool machines. I have to say I would have to see that 300' hoist line and the vertical lift that followed to believe that!

 

[mattpilot]

AWESOME! helicopters rawk!


btw unanswered - ideally you should have at least 200ft to land a helo. They don't like to come down vertically because then they can get into "settling with power", which means you smack into the ground.

 

[FracCapt]

btw unanswered - ideally you should have at least 200ft to land a helo. They don't like to come down vertically because then they can get into "settling with power", which means you smack into the ground.

You're right....but there are many times that there is NOT that much room to set one down. In a single, you're really trusting that the engine won't quit when you land in a confined area.....and you really have to watch your descent rate so you don't get into SWP. In a twin, you're not taking as much of a risk...it just depends on whether or not the thing can hover OGE single engine at that density altitude. If so, no problem. If not...well, you're in almost as bad of shape(maybe worse) as if you were in a single.

 

[urflyingme?!]

I heard choppers are magic!

 

[mudkow60]

I have landed in a few zones that are not much bigger than the rotor arc.

 

[FracCapt]

I have landed in a few zones that are not much bigger than the rotor arc.

And THAT is the beauty of a helicopter!

 

[cubflyr]

You're right....but there are many times that there is NOT that much room to set one down. In a single, you're really trusting that the engine won't quit when you land in a confined area.....and you really have to watch your descent rate so you don't get into SWP. In a twin, you're not taking as much of a risk...it just depends on whether or not the thing can hover OGE single engine at that density altitude. If so, no problem. If not...well, you're in almost as bad of shape(maybe worse) as if you were in a single.

One, two or three engines it doesn't matter. If you are going vertical into a confined area with an excessive rate of descent (greater than 300-500 fpm) you can easily get into settling with power especially if the aircraft is heavy. I'm not talking little R22 ,44 or even 206's. but with a UH-1, 222, S76, 430, if you exceed that, especially in a 222 you will fall right through and hit hard!!! We have to demonstrate this at every 6 month checkride, because we do go into extremely tight areas at gross weight. If you were to lose an engine, you can still only pull 100% torque, the same as with 2 engines. My motto is, "never go into a tight area, single or with all engines, unless you absolutely have too, or you do not have a way out" . Just my 2 cents.

 

[Pistlpetet]

One, two or three engines it doesn't matter. If you are going vertical into a confined area with an excessive rate of descent (greater than 300-500 fpm) you can easily get into settling with power especially if the aircraft is heavy. I'm not talking little R22 ,44 or even 206's. but with a UH-1, 222, S76, 430, if you exceed that, especially in a 222 you will fall right through and hit hard!!! We have to demonstrate this at every 6 month checkride, because we do go into extremely tight areas at gross weight. If you were to lose an engine, you can still only pull 100% torque, the same as with 2 engines. My motto is, "never go into a tight area, single or with all engines, unless you absolutely have too, or you do not have a way out" . Just my 2 cents.

And that my friend....is what separates the military from civilian pilots. You go into the tightest places because it is your job, and people depend on you for it. You go in with one engine or more, day or under NVGs. Not a problem when you are use to doing it.

 

[avbug]

Do I hear some horn tootin going on there, sort of one a "separates the men from the boys" swagger in that thar chattering keyboard of yours?

We all strive to see the mission accomplished, whatever it may be, civillian, military, and even us belt buckle wearing' crop dusters, big guy. Regardless of what we've done before.

What separates the living from the dead is hard, cold ground, powerlines, trees, obstacles, and yes, even settling with power.

Funny part is once you're dead, it doesn't really matter if you're reserve, active duty, civillian, or democrat.

 

[flyhighroller]

They don't like to come down vertically because then they can get into "settling with power", which means you smack into the ground.

Speaking of SWP...QUIZ TIME---what all do you need to get into that??

 

[mattpilot]

Speaking of SWP...QUIZ TIME---what all do you need to get into that??

According to aeronautics engineers, a rate of descent in excess of 700ft per min to get into a fully developed conditions, while being at a airspeed that is lower than the point where you obtain max ETL for your make/model.

AFAIK know, most instructors teach ROD in excess of 300ft & below 30 kts to be on the safe side.

 

[Hobit]

"ROD in excess of 300ft & below 30 kts to be on the safe side."

As I was taught:

ROD 100-300fpm
Near Vertical Decent (tailwinds bite you also)
Power applied (20-100%)

And you WILL know when S.W.P. arrives, the first time I experienced it, I thought the aircraft was falling apart...

Next quiz, what are the indications that you are in it and what do you do?

 

[Birdstrike]

And you WILL know when S.W.P. arrives, the first time I experienced it, I thought the aircraft was falling apart...

Next quiz, what are the indications that you are in it and what do you do?

Decaying rotor rpm and airspeed as the collective is instinctively pulled into the armpit while you try to figure out what the fork is going on, then you remember what that crusty old guy taught you and as you instead lead with cyclic to gain airspeed and fly out of it before contacting the ground. Then you worry about writing up that overtorque.

 

[FracCapt]

And you WILL know when S.W.P. arrives, the first time I experienced it, I thought the aircraft was falling apart...

Next quiz, what are the indications that you are in it and what do you do?

I was taught 300fpm or more descent, power applied to the rotor(any amount), and, airspeed below ETL(16-24 knots IAS, depending on model).

The primary indications of SWP are increased vibrations and increasing descent rate(which increases as you pull more collective). During a SWP demonstration, had a descent rate that pegged the VSI(maxes at 2,000fpm) within 10 seconds. More collective I pulled, the worse the vibrations got....and, presumably, the descent rate as well. We let it develop fully, then dropped the collective, pushed the cylic full forward, started bringing the collective back up at about 30 knots....leveled off within 300' of initiating the recovery, and this was in an estimated 3000fpm descent rate.

 

[TundraT]

You know what I like about this tread is the recurring theme that everyone was taught about S.W.P. It is unfortunate that occasionally someone forgets what they were taught.

 

[Birdstrike]

the recurring theme that everyone was taught about S.W.P....

Yeah...and a bunch of other stuff. I wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer at flight school and I'd already scared myself plenty of times in airplanes forgetting what my instructor told me. But, after that first nickle ride at 'Rucker, I knew it wasn't about just scaring myself anymore, it was about the real possibility of augering in in one of these things before I even knew why. God bless CW4 Bobby Evans and his ability to teach idiots like me.