First Officer Programs

[NookyBooky]

Why not just go to a place where you can get your ratings at an accelerated pace like ATP. 90 days and your a CFI where you can then start to earn a job in the industry.........

I believe that one must be a U.S. citizen to enroll at ATP. I'm not sure though, maybe it is just for their Airline Career Program.


On a side note, I've heard rumors that ATP might have a PFT deal in the works. It doesn't seem to credible considering ATP's reputation, but what the sheisse do I know. I've already been accepted to their program, I'm just waiting for the loans to come through. BUT if this PFT rumor turns out to be fact I'll tell them to eat chit. I see PFTers as chitting on my future and I don't want anything to do with a school that would produce them.

Anyone with any info??????????

 

[Photoflight]

dont they have an airline direct program now or something

 

[svcta]

Lightheart ,

the fact is that if you go to a place like Gulfstream and do their FO program you will get a job, if thats all you care about is having a place to work then go and do it, i havent heard of anybody being denied a job because they did the FO program, and the hiring figueres posted on their website are correct, almost everyone i know that went there is either flying an RJ or a turboprop somewhere and they are happy. What i would recommend is that you try and exit a program like this with over 600TT, then a world of options will open up to you. Being an instructor or banner towing is not for everyone, its alot of work and you live like a rat on $10 per hour. Do whats best for yourself.

Let's see......I made $17-$35/hour instructing.....$25/Hour towing banners...and $27/Hour flying cargo............and I still have my soul! I have always been a little selective about where work and it worked out fine for me.......you NEVER have to whore yourself out or pay for a job.

 

[The_Russian]

I see PFTers as chitting on my future and I don't want anything to do with a school that would produce them.

Just like the way most of us see RJ pilots. Chitting on the future of airline salaries. PFT is nothing compared to this industrie's real problems such as:

RJs flying mainline routes
Contract pay cuts
furloughs
pilots that will fly anything for any amount of money
GoJets and Freedom
The teamsters
bagels
liberals
oh, and LCC's

 

[Sprint100]

All I gotta say is stop playa hatin'. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. The game would be PFJ.

PFJ is an option that happens to suck for the industry, but it is there for those who think they need it. Hate that option. Don't start calling him/her a ho, unless they sellin' the poo-nanny.

 

[bender]

I believe that one must be a U.S. citizen to enroll at ATP. I'm not sure though, maybe it is just for their Airline Career Program.


On a side note, I've heard rumors that ATP might have a PFT deal in the works. It doesn't seem to credible considering ATP's reputation, but what the sheisse do I know. I've already been accepted to their program, I'm just waiting for the loans to come through. BUT if this PFT rumor turns out to be fact I'll tell them to eat chit. I see PFTers as chitting on my future and I don't want anything to do with a school that would produce them.

Anyone with any info??????????

First, no you do not need to be a US citizen to go through ATP's career program. You do need TSA approval before you begin training, however. Second, ATP does not have a PFT program. Their "direct track" program is a 6 month time-building phase in a Diamond to build up the total time to XJet's mins.

 

[keith]

LightHeart where are you going to end up??

LightHeart,

Don't let your Airline dreams ruin your financial future. Stop and consider that you might start & finish your aviation career at a regional airline. Take a good long look at First Officer salaries on airlinepilotpay.com. Be realistic and assume you will be a first officer for at least 3-5+ years. Get a good idea of how much money you will earn in this industry before you are forced out once you turn 60yrs. old. Will it be worth it, financially, for you to start now? To sell your house? Be very careful about how much you are willing to spend for training.

PFT doesn't make financial sense unless you make it to a "major airline" salary quickly. Good luck with that, these days.

Be realistic about the "Dream". Its not as glamorous as private pilots think. To top it off, you will end up hating yourself when you try to pay back 100K in loans while making 20-30K. My advice to everyone just starting out is simple: Take your time and do it as cheaply as possible. My annual salary of about 24K would be much better if I didn't have to give so much to the bank each month.

For what its worth,

-Keith

 

[Flyboyz]

Don't believe ANY of the rants and BS you hear on this board about ANY of the "hot" subjects.

One FACT that I am 100% certain of is that once you reach an experience level commensurate with getting hired anywhere beyond the regional level, they could give a rat's a@@ where you got that experience. They could not care less if you went to a "pilot factory", or if you or your daddy or your rich uncle paid for your training or bought you a personal King Air for you to tool around in, or will they care if you came from Mesa.

Your individual personality is what will get you the job. You experience and credentials will get you the interview. Beyond that...NO ONE CARES. Except the pathetic few on this board that will try and convice you otherwise.

For the record, my background is CFI, "commuter" pilot (before the days of PFT) on Metros and Dash 7s, then DC-9s, 727s, and for more years than I can remember, 737s,

So true. There is so much controversy about PFT. Its all part of the business of aviation training. Although I would never consider it for myself, its just another avenue the student may have.

About 1/3 of my business is dealing with airline pilots. All of them (about 40 of them) have been with the majors 15+ years. Over the span of 2 or 3 weeks I asked all of them about PFT just out of curiosity. About 60% did not even know what PFT was or that you can do that, 100% did not care how the FO got there as long as he was qualified and not an a$$hole to fly with. In addition, I personally know executives who were part of Gulfstream and started Gulfstream some years back who expressed that the largest percentage of students enrolling in the Gulfstream program were sons and daughters of airline captains. So there you go.

I do not personally believe in this method but its no different than my neighbor who purchased a Cessna 414 to accumulate ME time.

I personally do not feel that PFT hurts the industry from an experience basis it hurts the training side of the industry. If schools keep stealing money from banks,tThe more hesitant lending institutions will be to provide money for pilots to train.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[svcta]

So true. There is so much controversy about PFT. Its all part of the business of aviation training. Although I would never consider it for myself, its just another avenue the student may have.

About 1/3 of my business is dealing with airline pilots. All of them (about 40 of them) have been with the majors 15+ years. Over the span of 2 or 3 weeks I asked all of them about PFT just out of curiosity. About 60% did not even know what PFT was or that you can do that, 100% did not care how the FO got there as long as he was qualified and not an a$$hole to fly with. In addition, I personally know executives who were part of Gulfstream and started Gulfstream some years back who expressed that the largest percentage of students enrolling in the Gulfstream program were sons and daughters of airline captains. So there you go.

I do not personally believe in this method but its no different than my neighbor who purchased a Cessna 414 to accumulate ME time.

I personally do not feel that PFT hurts the industry from an experience basis it hurts the training side of the industry. If schools keep stealing money from banks,tThe more hesitant lending institutions will be to provide money for pilots to train.

Just my 2 cents.

Whos's going to be the first to spell out how shortsighted this is?

 

[de727ups]

"About 1/3 of my business is dealing with airline pilots. All of them (about 40 of them) have been with the majors 15+ years. Over the span of 2 or 3 weeks I asked all of them about PFT"

You should have asked the question like this:

Would you agree with a system where 300 to 500 hour pilots pay your airline money for the chance to be your F/O so they can build the experience to get a job with your airline.

Most of the major airline pilots I know have never heard of PFT and could care less about your background. However, if you told them about a program where pilots pay for a job, which lowers the career expectations for all professional pilots, they wouldn't think it's a very good idea. Maybe I should start my own informal poll.