First Officer Program...rip off or good

[hotshot95]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Well, I think you are quiet right about those F/O programs.
They are rip offs.

But thats not the problem . I don't have acces to the US job-market since I'm from Germany. Although I was lucky to receive my training in the US, and afterwards being a CFI, forestry pilot and freightdog, my stay was limited. And now I'm hunting for jobs on the entire globe.
So, the objective is to boost my qualifications to make myself more attractive to companies.
Any suggestions on "career boosting devices" and "areas of operation" for me ?

Current qualifications : FAA ATP ME, CFI, CFII, 1800 TT, 200 ME, and long, lonely nights in thunderstorms.

 

[bobbysamd]

Start applying

Your total time is good. You are a little light in the multi category, but you still have enough to apply for many jobs. Can you convert your U.S. certificates to their German equivalents and apply to the commuters in Europe? I know that Lufthansa has a commuter affiliate. Or can you apply to Lufthansa directly with your quals.

I don't believe you can convert your U.S. ATP to a German ATPL. You might get a CPL/IR after you take the local writtens.

My thought would be that if other European countries will accept German licenses that you could apply anywhere on the continent.

Just a couple of ideas that come to mind. Good luck with your job search.

 

[publisher]

Right for you

Frankly, I really do not like it when people label these programs as a rip off. The only question is are they or a particular program for you.

The fact is that for the most part, the things that are going to determine your success are multi engine and turbine time. If building time as a CFI is doing you any good at that, I do not know what it is.

I think that companies such as AirNet or Bank Air or similar proving grounds is where you learn. Programs like Gulfstream Academy are legitimate programs. Are they for you? I cannot answer.

To label them as rip offs is a generality that is not appropriate.

 

[Freight Dog]

You bet it's a rip-off. Keep in mind that the time you get from these scam artists may be worthless i.e. SIC time in C-402 or C90 King Air is highly questionable at best. Prime example, we had those "First Officers" come to us at Ameriflight, and we'd fly with them warming the seat next to us. Sure, I'd let them fly, but the flight would go out whether or not they were aboard. So that alone may be questionable time to log.

Secondly, if it's indeed a legitimate FO position like the one at Gulfstream, you are effectively stealing a paying job from another pilot by paying to work.
But then again, the airline is ran by an EAL scab named Tom Cooper, so what could you expect from a scab??!
Note, I am not bashing Gulfstream pilots, only management.

Finally, if you are currently freight-dogging, keep at it. I'm sure there will be turbine opportunities along where you won't have to pay that's if you don't get picked up by Lufthansa or its regional. Patience is the key.

Good luck!

 

[72Longhorn]

Why not bash the pilots???

Why not bash the pilots???

Without the pilots paying for the right seat, there would be no reason to bash management; other than being a former EAL scab.

I personally have no respect for someone that gets a flying job simply because he/she has a fat wallet.

It affected me directly in the mid 1990s when everyone hiring was PFT. I met all the requirements, but didn't meet the $10,000 check requirement.

I finally began flying in 1999.

my .02

72Longhorn

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

I'll second that 100%! I could have been P-F-T'er, too, in the early '90s. I didn't feel that any job was worth shelling out the money; moreover, and more importantly, I have to face myself in the mirror every morning and wanted to feel that I got the job on my merits and not through my loan officer.

 

[Freight Dog]

Heh, well... I thought my view on PFT was already known. I just wasn't trying to start a flame war and stay away from the beat old horse of PFT debate.

 

[yipstick]

Prostitution

As long as there are those who are willing to either pay for the right seat or do it for free, then the industry will always be a breeding ground for low paying, dangerous jobs (single-engine, night, icing conditions, IFR, flying cancelled checks for $1200/month). Those pilots who are clamoring for experience should simply become flight indtructors and pay their dues with true grit and gain some true experience. If you wish to prostitute yourself, do it on the street, not the airways.

 

[publisher]

Right for you

This go through the grind stuff is pretty over-rated.

One of my best friends joined the USAF, flew a fighter, and went straight to American Airlines. One can say he paid his dues I suppose but as far as this CFI stuff goes, in my book it is a waste of time as far as an airline career.

To say a program is legitimate but is terrible because someone you regard as a scab started the company is BS. Is the doctor working for nothing and on 48hours in a row as an intern any different.

In the end, the only questionm should be the skills at the profession whether Mommy bought it for you worked your way up paying for lesson picking cotton.

 

[Bluto]

The difference between the intern doctor and buying a seat as an FO should be clear. The intern obtained his/her position through skill and hard work. The "FO" obtained the position by writing a check. The intern builds invaluable experience and knowledge. The "FO" builds time. Talk to the people who have been involved in these programs. The vast majority that I have spoken to consider them considerable wastes of time and money. I can see why you might want to defend your lack of a CFI rating. However, especially in the current job market, obtaining a CFI rating is a very good idea. It's got very little to do with "putting in your time". Becoming a CFI is a perfect way to prepare for an airline job. I couldn't disagree with you more when you say that a CFI is a waste of time for airline hopefuls. What exactly is wasteful about building approx. 1000 hours of PIC time in a year? What is wasteful about tremendously improving your interpersonal skills, not to mention the in-depth technical knowledge? If you ever flew for a regional airline, you would notice that a tremendous proportion of the captains were former CFI's. A great deal has been said in this post about the value of a CFI. If you can't understand the valuable experience the CFI gains, hopefully the people looking here for information will.