first flight in night IMC

[apcooper]

Last night was my first flight at night in the soup. Weather was kind of wierd. At HFD it was about 1500 BKN and 2500 OVC but just 13nm away at BDL it was 200OVC and 3/8mi vis!! I wanted a good workout so I had my instructor cover attitude and HDG for partial panel as soon as we entered the clouds. Seconds later when 5 from FAF we got our app clearance and flew the ILS to minimums and barely saw the lead in lights at DH! Then flew according to our missed app instructions and then did the full LDA app w/PT into HFD still partial panel. Broke out plenty high at 1700ft and I made my by far my smoothest landing ever!! I just had a question for all of you with more experience than myself.

Flying simulated PP in IMC at night was very taxing! I was able without much difficulity to understand and execute our instructions from ATC but didn't have enough "umph" to be able to effectively listen closely to ATC instructions for other aircraft and picture where they were and where they were headed. Kind of a swimming in glue feeling.

I was wondering if it's normal to have this feeling even for pilots with thousands of hours in this situation, or with that much time will it go away and would it seem as mundane as driving a car in light traffic? I'd be very curious to know.

 

[RJP]

Voluntary partial panel at night in IMC? Masochist! And you were probably in a -172 which is already on the verge of an IFE if you are flying instruments.

Well done lad. It'll get easier the more you do it.

 

[apcooper]

Well, I wouldn't exactly consider myself macho, but thanks for the compliment! I just wanted to be sure that should the real thing ever happen at the worst possible time, I'll be able to handle it successfully. I'm sure there was some elevated risk in what my CFII and I did but with two of us I thought it was still safe. What is an IFE? Yes, we were in a 172R too.

 

[Vik]

PP in the soup. Sweet.

macho has nothing to do with masochist. Link.

Well, I wouldn't exactly consider myself macho, but thanks for the compliment! I just wanted to be sure that should the real thing ever happen at the worst possible time, I'll be able to handle it successfully. I'm sure there was some elevated risk in what my CFII and I did but with two of us I thought it was still safe. What is an IFE? Yes, we were in a 172R too.

 

[Swerpipe]

Recognition is 90% of the battle

apcooper,

Recognizing that you have a panel failure is 90% of the battle for PP as supposed to flying PP. Having had one in IMC I can tell you the event is insidious and not something that is as simple as an instructor saying "OK you have a partial panel". I flew for about 4 minutes feeling nauseous not realizing the instruments were drifting ever so slightly from each other until I felt the turn coordinator matching my movement and not the AI. The trick is for you to recognize it, for you to maintain control as you cover the panel and then to find the path to safety ASAP. Conducting multiple approaches in this condition while challenging and fun to a great extent is not realistic or as productive as you may think. A few years from now you'll be flying some type of turbine powered multi-engine aircraft and look back at flying LIFR, single engine, at night and think "Oh my GOD, what was I thinking?". Think of ALWAYS having "an out" when flying. What was your "out" for an engine failure? NOTHING! I've been there... That has happened to me, believe me!

That type of exercise is better left to simulators, even PCATDs. I have Elite V7.04 and it does a wonderful job at simulating loss of vacuum as well as piston/static port freezing. I would highly recommend that you expose yourself to that. I guarantee that it will be effort well spent. I commend you in your passion for instrument flying. It is really the most important skill that a pilot possesses, even better than performing nice landings. I have flown with many pilots who are great sticks and perform outstanding landings. But with very few pilots who are great and smooth instrument pilots.

 

[apcooper]

Swerpipe,


Actually, I have flown many times on a sim while covering up the suction guage while the vacuum insturments gradually fail. I can almost always recognise it and will cover them right away. As for an engine failure, yea I've thought a lot about it but statistically it is a very small cause of night IFR accidents. Just look through the NTSB accident reports and you'll see. Richard Collins, probably the most experienced general aviation pilots in the world, agrees with me and he regulary flies his P210 in airline weather. He seems as far from a pilot cowboy as you can get. What is an IFE?

 

[Art Vandalay]

Swerpipe,


Actually, I have flown many times on a sim while covering up the suction guage while the vacuum insturments gradually fail. I can almost always recognise it and will cover them right away. As for an engine failure, yea I've thought a lot about it but statistically it is a very small cause of night IFR accidents. Just look through the NTSB accident reports and you'll see. Richard Collins, probably the most experienced general aviation pilots in the world, agrees with me and he regulary flies his P210 in airline weather. He seems as far from a pilot cowboy as you can get. What is an IFE?

WHAT A DORK!!!

 

[Swerpipe]

Not suggesting you are unsafe... Just manage risk

Swerpipe,
Actually, I have flown many times on a sim while covering up the suction guage while the vacuum insturments gradually fail. I can almost always recognise it and will cover them right away. As for an engine failure, yea I've thought a lot about it but statistically it is a very small cause of night IFR accidents. Just look through the NTSB accident reports and you'll see. Richard Collins, probably the most experienced general aviation pilots in the world, agrees with me and he regulary flies his P210 in airline weather. He seems as far from a pilot cowboy as you can get. What is an IFE?

Airline weather is everyone's weather. As a pilot you have to manage risk. You will make mistakes on all flights. Managing those mistakes so that not one results in anything catastrophic is the challenge. Learning the fundamentals of flight takes about an hour. It takes a lifetime to learn when not to fly. We are just a couple of hours, ratings and scary moments from agreeing. BTW, Lindberg flew over 30 hours over water, mostly IMC, single engine and he is my hero.

P.S.
IFE- In Flight Emergency if you are on a Cessna or

In Flight Entertainment if you are on a 737/747/757/767/777/Airbus 3XX

Art, you have me hypnotized

 

[apcooper]

Swerpipe,

You hit the nail right on the head by stating it takes a lifetime to learn when not to fly. That is spot on! It is absolutly gutwrenching making the go/no-go decision when the weather is barderline. I was curious as to whether you'd attempt to fly in the following scenarios. I would not go in either one or two but would in 3, I'd like your opinion though.


1) Piper Navajo, dest TAF reports a 30% chance of -FZRA and -PL at your ETA? Otherwise 800 BKN 1200 OVC, -RA

2) Cessna 182, 1000 OVC tops to 4000, FZ level at surface with reports of light ice by other singles (Bonanza, Saratoga) in clouds.

3) Flying a 172, 500 OVC tops 12000 FZ level 6000, MEA 4000.


In the first scenario eventhough the Navajo is a known ice plane, it can't withstand SLD and that just seems like a dangerous game of Russian Roulette to me. In the last scenario I'm comfortable because I have an easy out if I need it.

 

[semperfido]

I think I am having a bad dream

 

[Uncle Sparky]

I think I'm having a wet dream! I was actually paying attention until I saw Art Vandalay's avatar. My eyes keep going blurry from overfocusing!

 

[bigD]

My eyes keep going blurry from overfocusing!

Wait...huh? Did you say something?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I don't fly IMC unless I have three independent attitude indicators. Training for IMC, in IMC, is against my religion. Richard Collins is stupid.

 

[RJP]

PP in the soup. Sweet.

macho has nothing to do with masochist. Link.

Vik, do you expect us to look up "masochist" on that page on our own? Either you're trying to get us to learn "Hanukkah Word Origins" or you didn't link it correctly. Whatevahs.

And yes, for those wondering IFE, in this case, was In Flight Emergency. As in: "Wow, I had to fly instruments in a C-172. It was a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing IFE from the get-go!"