First Crossing?

[Duderino]

Will you guys please give me some pointers? I am totally green when it comes to this and need all the advice I can get. The guy I am flying with doesn't like to help, and am looking for some pointers that will help me as I go along.

The class I took last October( Global Ops Intial) was a joke, and the little I took away is long gone.

What is the procedure for altitude changes in the North Atlantic RVSM?

What is the order of position reporting? Pos/Time/Alt/Pos/Time/Pos? I am familiar with Position Reporting, however it was in the Caribbean, South America, and Mexico.

Another question for those familiar with Honeywell IRS in the GIV. The software we have is what the plane came with in 1992. We only have one GPS sensor.
Is it possible to update the IRS during flight from the GPS Sensor?
We are having some drift issues. No. 1 is 4.0, No. 2 is 0.5, and No. 3 is 2.0 all with in forty minutes of flight. It seemed to hold the same amount of error after that, for another 2 hours.

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

Duder

 

[leardrivr]

Well if you fly at 430-450 you will be on a random track so I would'nt worry to much about the drift. Rnp5 will do. As far as reports the nmps is the worst in the world. When on random track you will have the standard position report. Position ie. 52N50W at 2100Z FL450 mach 0.84 estimating 53N40W at 2140 52N30W next. Then you give the weather at your reporting point. temp -55 wind 245/115. and your supposed to give a mid wind put most people don't. Oh and dont forget to get your oceanic clearence from gander as soon as possible. This will give you the best chance of getting the altitude you want. The best thing to do is get an North Atlantic Orientation chart and study the panels. Just about everything you need to know is on there. Make sure you read all the little notes on the chart as well. Stay ahead on the chart and it will be alot easier the first couple of times.


Good luck! and have fun with it.

Will you guys please give me some pointers? I am totally green when it comes to this and need all the advice I can get. The guy I am flying with doesn't like to help, and am looking for some pointers that will help me as I go along.

The class I took last October( Global Ops Intial) was a joke, and the little I took away is long gone.

What is the procedure for altitude changes in the North Atlantic RVSM?

What is the order of position reporting? Pos/Time/Alt/Pos/Time/Pos? I am familiar with Position Reporting, however it was in the Caribbean, South America, and Mexico.

Another question for those familiar with Honeywell IRS in the GIV. The software we have is what the plane came with in 1992. We only have one GPS sensor.
Is it possible to update the IRS during flight from the GPS Sensor?
We are having some drift issues. No. 1 is 4.0, No. 2 is 0.5, and No. 3 is 2.0 all with in forty minutes of flight. It seemed to hold the same amount of error after that, for another 2 hours.

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

Duder

 

[semperfido]

Will you guys please give me some pointers? I am totally green when it comes to this and need all the advice I can get. The guy I am flying with doesn't like to help, and am looking for some pointers that will help me as I go along.

The class I took last October( Global Ops Intial) was a joke, and the little I took away is long gone.

What is the procedure for altitude changes in the North Atlantic RVSM?

What is the order of position reporting? Pos/Time/Alt/Pos/Time/Pos? I am familiar with Position Reporting, however it was in the Caribbean, South America, and Mexico.

Another question for those familiar with Honeywell IRS in the GIV. The software we have is what the plane came with in 1992. We only have one GPS sensor.
Is it possible to update the IRS during flight from the GPS Sensor?
We are having some drift issues. No. 1 is 4.0, No. 2 is 0.5, and No. 3 is 2.0 all with in forty minutes of flight. It seemed to hold the same amount of error after that, for another 2 hours.

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

Duder

study Panels on Jepp Atlantic Orientation chart for starters...most everything you need to know is there.- sorry redundant- fingers not quick enough

and

your g4 will be using the gps to navigate. let the irs drift. they are a backup. BUT if you have to do it: there is no way to directly update irs from gps.yes you could update them manually by putting in the gps coordinates or crossing a known fix before you coast out (but then you risk messing them up worse than if you leave them alone). on fms go to position sensors and select each irs and select update to enter coordinates. i would practice before my initial crossing.

also, if you have the time and inclination- why not go out to hangar and tune 8864 or other appropriate freq on HF and listen to how other guys do it. it may help you be more at ease.

plot your route on plotting chart when you get to hangar using FP.

if you want to change altitudes you simply request the change on HF and wait for them to selcal otherwise you maintain listening watch until they call you back (sometimes it takes a little while).

hope this helps.

 

[G100driver]

What do mean the guy does not like to help? Is he clueless or just not want to share his knowledge?

As for IRS who cares .... it is the 3rd method of navigation/position for your FMS. (2nd overwater)

If the other guy is clueless you might want to hire a guy to sit on the jumpseat for your 1st cross.

 

[Duderino]

What do mean the guy does not like to help? Is he clueless or just not want to share his knowledge?

As for IRS who cares .... it is the 3rd method of navigation/position for your FMS. (2nd overwater)

If the other guy is clueless you might want to hire a guy to sit on the jumpseat for your 1st cross.

He's not clueless, he's just a chunk of coal. Because we only have one GPS sensor, and are obviously going to be over water, I am concerned about the abnormal drift these things are having. Besides there are other issues with the plane leading to my concern about the IRS. I just don't want to end up on the Flux.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to pick up the chart on our short flight tomorrow, and also listen to a few reports over the HF. Thanks a lot for all the help.

duderino

 

[semperfido]

i don't know the "other" issues but to ease your mind - i have made numerous trips across the N ATL with one gps in a g4 and never had a hiccup.

 

[G100driver]

Also take a look at

www.trainati.com.

This is an excellent reference center for international overwater ops. The guy who run's it, Dave Storh, is a former Andrews pilot and has flown all over the world in a G-IIIs'. If you are ever looking for a good international class this is the guy.

 

[Duderino]

Great Help. I appreciate all the advice.

 

[English]

What great advice!

This is one of those rare threads on flightinfo that makes searching through all the flamebait worthwhile.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

hope not too repetative but..

Study the ATL orientation chart. Its got it all.

I bet I average 25 crossings a year and still learn something every time I pick it up...and you will have 40-45mins between every position report to kill time! It gives all the info on position reports, Mach technique, Oceanic clearances - when and who to get it from and the frequencies (Gander, Shanwick, Bodo etc)

KEEP GOOD NOTES, have procedures. Be careful if they guy you are flying with is a lump of coal. Have a set procedure for entering (or downloading via AFIS) the flight plan and always verify it independently. every time. NY center clears you to Gander VOR 600nm away? WRITE IT DOWN. time and frequency. I know of more than one guy who has saved his butt by being able to say "Uh, no at 0211Z NY center cleared me direct on freq 130.1" I knew that because I had it written down on the Master/Trip Log. rerouted? be VERY careful..read the section that says something like "80% of GNEs occur after an inflight reroute"

Double check your plotted route. Do 10 minute checks carefully and religiously. There is no excuse for showing up 300nm off. You are done. cooked. YOU will have to be the one to be precise if the other guy isn't.

Practice your position reporting. Know what you want to say. Look professional. Not sure if they WANT a full position report at 50W? rattle one off quick and no worries - you will sound seasoned...foremost, never assume anything.

I truly think preparation is the key...allow plenty of time. My first few crossings I was getting ready at the airport 4 hrs ahead..seems a bit crazy now but it sure helped then!

No worries, after 2 or 3 times it will be fairly simple and you will truly enjoy it! -- then you will get your first trip to Mumbai or Jakarta or Karachi ...then the fun ends again..I mean, love the world but call a $hithole a $hithole I say!!!(haha) Travel smart - no matter how hard you try to blend in - everyone knows you are an American, and some places thats just not the thing to be!

either way the learning never stops..



Enjoy!

It may sound simple but....most important thing IMHO. ...Remember you are visiting someone elses country! YOU are the foreigner. I try and represent the States as good as I can. Im humble, polite, and generous. Once people sense this they frequently warm up quick and are very helpful. Find their homeland interesting? I tell them how beautiful it is.

I farkin CRINGE when I see the stereotypical "Ignorant American"...and you will be amazed how often you will. Take the time to research some local traditions and ways. Shorts and white sneakers? yeah, you will be the only one. Also, Learn a few words of thier language...they like that. A smile and an attempt goes very far! Talking LOUDER in English does not cut it.

Know when it's appropriate to tip and tip well. 2 dollars is not a "ton of money to THESE people" anywhere in the world anymore (no matter what some older crusty a$$ pilots say).. Other places they dont want to be tipped - respect that also. (Japan)

just some of my peeves!!!...and no, believe it or not, Im really NOT a prik to fly with!

.

 

[G100driver]

Nice post.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

No "uhs" no "ahhhs", be precise and brief. Dont say "Gulfstream 12345" say "November 12345". Dont call Shannon Shanwick, and vice versa. Dont use slang like "Lookin' for lower", say "Novermber 12345 requesting descent". Use a highlighter and highlight every fix that you are going to fly over. The French controllers make all of the fixes sound the same, if you highlight the ones on your route, then you MIGHT have a chance of not having to have them spell them for you. Make sure to look at the transition altitudes. And most important, look for speed points on the plates.

Ace

 

[Computer Geek]

All great points, I would also make sure you plot all the tracks and your route on an orientation chart it will really help in the event you do have a hiccup. Also the Gross Navigation Error check is the most important part of you plot.
I was at the IOC this year and they told a story about an aircraft that crossed 3 tracks at the wrong altitude causing several RA's

If you get a re-route be especially careful when setting up your FMS. Most GNE occur after a re route

Ace of the base's advice is also dead on, use a highlighter and be prepared for terminology your not use to.

"Line up and wait" - Taxi into position and hold
"Behind the Landing B757 Line up and wait"

You must request "Startup"
"N1234 Copy ATC" ATC Clearance will usually be read to you on taxi out. Some larger airports will have a Delivery freq.

And if you haven't used HF radio's alot remember this the higher the sun the higher the FREQ. So when you can not contact Gander or Shanwick
on the assigned FREQ you can probably choose the correct freq of the Orientation chart.

CG

 

[2000flyer]

G200 and Ace, excellent posts.

As others have said so well; be polite, be prepared and be professional. You're obviously doing your homework early so I have no doubt you'll be prepared. I like G100's idea of taking a seasoned pro along with you. Not only will they help with the crossing but also dealing with with the little things that can get you when you arrive. Have all your paperwork in order for customs/immigration. As a crewmember, you probably won't receive much attention from Customs. While they've looked at my passport upon entry, they've never once stamped it. The only time that nearly caused a problem was in a South American bank trying to covert travelers check and he couldn't find an entrance stamp.

Depending on what country your going to, you can often get all the customs paperwork ahead of time. Now your passengers have a few hours to get things filled out. Last time in London that saved our passengers about 45 mintues. They stepped off the plane, presented their completed paperwork and were on their way. Not only is it a convenience for them, but it makes the crew look good to for being well prepared. I make it a practice, even with seasoned travelers, to physically check for my own eyes that they have all their paperwork on them when boarding. That includes passports, visas, etc. You'll avoid that "Oh sh*t" moment half way to destination when you're passenger comes up and says "uh....I left my passport in the car!"

Lastly, aside from the crossing itself, if you're going to a country (or flying through their airspace) that speaks a foreign language, try learning a few basic words. Good morning (afternoon, evening), please, thank you, good bye. Being polite and showing some attempt and learning the language will ease your transition. Being the "ugly American" will just cause great frustration.

You're doing your homework early. Relax, absorb, enjoy. Have a great trip!

2000Flyer

PS - In your prep, don't forget to learn and completely understand the way your host country operates. Many places will more than likely clear your for a full approach rather than get vectors. Many larger airports will have a plate for the arrival that will transistion to a specific approach. Be prepared. Also, terminology will be different. In the UK (and other places), you'll get "line up and wait" rather than "position and hold." Another good reason to taken a seasoned pilot with you to avoid the pitfalls.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you share these planes with many other folks, EASY on the highlighter please... ...

I have picked up some charts that look like pre-school coloring practice!!

Its just as easy to circle or highlight the FIR fix on your flight plan and know what to call the next center..

OR - if one insists on coloring maps, use those real nifty highlighter tape pens that peel off after you pass the fix - those are pretty slick!

BAN THE HIGHLIGHTERS!

.

 

[TonyC]

If you share these planes with many other folks, EASY on the highlighter please... ...

I have picked up some charts that look like pre-school coloring practice!!

Its just as easy to circle or highlight the FIR fix on your flight plan and know what to call the next center..

OR - if one insists on coloring maps, use those real nifty highlighter tape pens that peel off after you pass the fix - those are pretty slick!

BAN THE HIGHLIGHTERS!

.

What kind of cheese would you like with that?




.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

What kind of cheese would you like with that?




.

Bright Orange or Bright Yellow American...Im not too picky..

 

[AA717driver]

You WILL have trouble understanding the controllers (even in the U.K.). When you don't get something, just say "I'm sorry, could you please repeat." Even the most seasoned among us still don't get some transmissions.

Talk to you later.TC

 

[CL60]

Dude,

Check your PM's.

Too bad about the "lump." Hope you fly with "diamonds" too.

Good luck,

 

[semperfido]

Dude,

Check your PM's.

Too bad about the "lump." Hope you fly with "diamonds" too.

Good luck,

it does make it more enjoyable when you make your first xing -- it is with someone that has a little enthusiasm