First Class Medical

[cbrown1]

I think I’m right but I just want to double check something, tell me if I’m wrong. If I got a first class medical in March of 06, I would still have first class privileges until the end of September. Right?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

A first class medical issued on 3/1/06 or 3/31/06 will lose its first class privilieges on 9/30/06. It's still a first class medical, it just reverts to a second class for the following 6 months.

 

[cbrown1]

A first class medical issued on 3/1/06 or 3/31/06 will lose its first class privilieges on 9/30/06. It's still a first class medical, it just reverts to a second class for the following 6 months.

Yeah, Thats what I thought too but just wanted someone to confrim.

Thanks

 

[avbug]

That first class medical does NOT revert to a second class after six months. The class of medical certificate does not change. The privileges for which it is valid changes, but it is an issued certificate, much like your pilot certificate, which does not change in class six months, a year, or ten years later. Ten years later it may no longer be valid for airman privileges, but it's still a first class medical certificate.

Medical certificates do not revert from one class to another.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

That first class medical does NOT revert to a second class after six months. The class of medical certificate does not change. The privileges for which it is valid changes, but it is an issued certificate, much like your pilot certificate, which does not change in class six months, a year, or ten years later. Ten years later it may no longer be valid for airman privileges, but it's still a first class medical certificate.

Medical certificates do not revert from one class to another.

You may have misread what I wrote as I said it was STILL a first class medical. Perhaps I should be more explicit. It reverts to privileges associated with a second class medical.

A first class medical issued on 3/1/06 or 3/31/06 will lose its first class privilieges on 9/30/06. It's still a first class medical, it just reverts to a second class for the following 6 months.

.

 

[wt219200]

Can someone point me to where this is stated in the FAR/AIM. I am reading under 61.23

(d) Duration of a medical certificate. (1) A first-class medical certificate expires at the end of the last day of—
(i) The sixth month after the month of the date of examination shown on the certificate for operations requiring an airline transport pilot certificate;
(ii) The 12th month after the month of the date of examination shown on the certificate for operations requiring a commercial pilot certificate or an air traffic control tower operator certificate; and
(iii) The period specified in paragraph (c)(3) of this section for operations requiring a recreational pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate, a flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command or a required pilot flight crewmember in operations other than glider or balloon), or a student pilot certificate.




Part (ii) is what is confusing me. It seems in instances that require a CPL the first class is good for 12 calendar months. I know I'm reading it wrong because I just got sent home from an interview for interpreting this paragraph incorrectly. I've talked to some friends that have explained it to me. But reading this paragraph is still confusing the hell out of me.

 

[unreal]

Can someone point me to where this is stated in the FAR/AIM. I am reading under 61.23

(d) Duration of a medical certificate. (1) A first-class medical certificate expires at the end of the last day of—
(i) The sixth month after the month of the date of examination shown on the certificate for operations requiring an airline transport pilot certificate;
(ii) The 12th month after the month of the date of examination shown on the certificate for operations requiring a commercial pilot certificate or an air traffic control tower operator certificate; and
(iii) The period specified in paragraph (c)(3) of this section for operations requiring a recreational pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate, a flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command or a required pilot flight crewmember in operations other than glider or balloon), or a student pilot certificate.




Part (ii) is what is confusing me. It seems in instances that require a CPL the first class is good for 12 calendar months. I know I'm reading it wrong because I just got sent home from an interview for interpreting this paragraph incorrectly. I've talked to some friends that have explained it to me. But reading this paragraph is still confusing the hell out of me.

Pretty simple, really. Say that your first class medical is issued on 1/1/07.

-If you're exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate, you can exercise those privileges with that medical certificate from 1/1/07 until 7/31/07 (a 6 month period).

-If you're exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate, that first class medical certificate is valid from 1/1/07 until 1/31/08 (a 12 month period).

If that's what you told them, I don't see why you would have gotten sent home. That's the letter of the law.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

be right back.

 

[gkrangers]

You may have misread what I wrote as I said it was STILL a first class medical. Perhaps I should be more explicit. It reverts to privileges associated with a second class medical.






.

Ahhh, but in your first post, you said "reverts to a second class"...instead of "second class priviledges".

You know we don't care, but its the kind of thing Avbug jumps on to make himself feel more godlike.

 

[wt219200]

Pretty simple, really. Say that your first class medical is issued on 1/1/07.

-If you're exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate, you can exercise those privileges with that medical certificate from 1/1/07 until 7/31/07 (a 6 month period).

-If you're exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate, that first class medical certificate is valid from 1/1/07 until 1/31/08 (a 12 month period).

If that's what you told them, I don't see why you would have gotten sent home. That's the letter of the law.

I wasn't even in the interview yet. This was about ten minutes into filling out paperwork. Pulled outside and told my First Class is expired and said I could come back in three months. They requested pre-interview a valid First Class Medical with First Class privledges. The way I interpreted the reg was since I don't have an ATP and I am not interviewing for a job that requires the ATP my 9 month old First Class was still valid. Now obviously I should have just got a new medical, but I didn't even think twice about it after reading the above reg. So I see it says it doesn't expire for 12 months but where does it talk about privledges?

 

[AC560]

They requested pre-interview a valid First Class Medical with First Class privledges. The way I interpreted the reg was since I don't have an ATP and I am not interviewing for a job that requires the ATP my 9 month old First Class was still valid.

Your First Class is still valid (which meets the first part of their request which is valid First Class Medical). After 6 calendar months from issue though it will only allow for privileges of 2nd class (so you failed the second part of their request with First Class privledges which is why I guess you got bounced).

 

[midlifeflyer]

I wasn't even in the interview yet. This was about ten minutes into filling out paperwork. Pulled outside and told my First Class is expired and said I could come back in three months. They requested pre-interview a valid First Class Medical with First Class privledges. The way I interpreted the reg was since I don't have an ATP and I am not interviewing for a job that requires the ATP my 9 month old First Class was still valid. Now obviously I should have just got a new medical, but I didn't even think twice about it after reading the above reg. So I see it says it doesn't expire for 12 months but where does it talk about privledges?

It's all written very clearly on the back of the certificate. It talks about the validity of each class of certificate depending on what type of operation you are flying.Turn it over and read it.

But, based on your post, I think you're missing the point. The company you were interviewing for doesn't care if your 1st class medical is valid for 3d-class operations for 36 calendar months or even for the operations that are involved in the job. The wanted, as you said, "a valid First Class Medical with First Class privledges." They wanted to know that, as of the date of the interview, you qualified for a first class medical. "First class privileges" just means a 1st class medical certificate that is valid for operations that require a first class medical certificate. That means, um ... (turning medical certificate over) ... ah! There it is "6 calendar months for those operations requiring a first class medical certificate."

(BTW, I actually like this nit-pick by AvBug. Whenever everyone talks about the first class in some way changing into a second class, I imagine reaching to a wallet on the first day of the 7th calendar month and finding the word FIRST has magically morphed into SECOND.)

 

[wt219200]

Midlife I understand that I was wrong and understand what they wanted, I have stated this in the above posts. What I am looking for is clarification of 61.23. Why it is written the way it is, and why not just say a First Class Medical expires in 6 months. Why include the sentence a First Class Medical expires 12 calendar months from the date of issusance for those operations reuiring a Commercial Pilots License.

 

[great cornholio]

The FARs are written the way they are because they were written by lawers. Some of them are written kinda confusing, but I think this one is pretty cut and dry. The only way any medical (1st 2nd or 3rd) class could truely expire would be to go past time time limit needed for Private Pilot Privs. (36 months until a certain age...40 I think then it goes down to 24 months). At that point you cant get into a plane and legally fly. I'm not 40 yet so as long as my medical is less than 36 months old I can get in a plane and legally fly. The way I can fly changes with time but my medical will still be the same kind (1st, 2nd, 3rd) as it was the day I got it.

Think about it this way. I get a 3rd class medical I can only do Private Privs for 36 months. After that I cant fly because I dont have a medical because it expired.

I get a 2nd class medical. Now I can fly my Comm Privs for 12 months. After that I can only do Private Privs for the next 24 months (until the cert is 36 months old). After that I cant fly because I dont have a medical because it expired.

I get a 1st class medical. Now I can use my ATP Privs for 6 months. Then use my Comm Privs for and additional 6 months (until the cert is 12 months old). After that I can use my Private Privs for another 24 months (until the cert is 36 months old). After that I cant fly because I dont have a medical because it is expired. That whole 36 months I had a "current 1st class medical" except I only had a "current first class medical with first class privs" the first 6 months.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Midlife I understand that I was wrong and understand what they wanted, I have stated this in the above posts. What I am looking for is clarification of 61.23. Why it is written the way it is, and why not just say a First Class Medical expires in 6 months.

Because it doesn't.

==============================
expire
• verb 1 (of a document or agreement) come to the end of the period of validity. 2 (of a period of time) come to an end. 3 (of a person) die. 4 technical exhale (air) from the lungs.
==============================

If a first class medical "expired" after 6 months, then if a 22-year old student pilot decided to qualify for a first class with his student pilot certificate, he'd have to get a new medical certificate after 6 months. That what "expired" means - done, no good, invalid, can't be used.

So instead, 61.23 says a first class medical certificate expires in six months "for operations requiring an airline transport pilot certificate."

Other than the weird way the reg describes the time period instead of just saying "calendar months," (that's not legalese - it's regulese - often written by folks who think that's the way lawyers are supposed to sound), it's pretty straightforward.

On the other hand, if you're saying that a student pilot should either not be allowed to get a first class medical or that if she decided to, too bad, go shell out more money in 6 months, that's a different story.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Why is this so hard to grasp for some.

FIRST CLASS:
Duration of exercised privileges from date of exam.
ATP: 6 months
Comm: 12 months
Private: 24 (over 40), 36 (under 40)



SECOND CLASS:
Duration of exercised privileges from date of exam.
ATP: N/A
Comm: 12 months
Private: 24 (over 40), 36 (under 40)



THIRD CLASS:
Duration of exercised privileges from date of exam.
ATP: N/A
Comm: N/A
Private: 24 (over 40), 36 (under 40)

 

[nosehair]

Why it is written the way it is, and why not just say a First Class Medical expires in 6 months.

Hey Look Kid, Flyin' an airplane is easy. If that's all we had to know how to do it would be too easy. Gettin' thru these regs weeds out the riff-raff.

 

[lawfly]

I have read before on here and also in this thread that "the FARs are written by lawyers". Maybe they are, but I think they're more often written by FAA bureaucrats who are not necessarily lawyers. A good lawyer-draftsman usually seeks to avoid vagueness or ambiguity, not to create it. It's true the class denoted on the medical certificate is not physically changed--it's still a first--but the airline transport-related privileges associated with a current first class class medical have expired after 6 months. This is why the medical certificate does not bear an expiration date. Because some of the operating privileges continue after 6 months, after 12 months, etc. So, while the class denoted on the certificate has not changed, the first class privileges have expired, and, per the quoted FAR, the lesser included second class privileges remain intact for the next 6 months. The quoted reg mentions both class of certificate and privileges. The quoted reg does not say that the class of the certificate changes, but it does say that the associated privileges change. So, the posts addressing privileges are correct. If the certificate expired after six months, without further qualifying language in the regulation, then no privileges would remain.

 

[wt219200]

Hey Look Kid, Flyin' an airplane is easy. If that's all we had to know how to do it would be too easy. Gettin' thru these regs weeds out the riff-raff.

Kid? Thats funny. Riff-Raff? Thats also funny. I'm sure I'm the first person to misinterpret a reg, I should send my tickets back to the FAA. If there were only a way to eliminate the Riff-Raff on flightinfo like this jackass.

 

[nosehair]

If there were only a way to eliminate the Riff-Raff on flightinfo like this jackass.

'Twas meant in jest, Sir. Hopefully indicated by the 'rolleyes' symbol.
The meaning of my comment is that we are all in the same boat, here; we all share the g*#ldanged irritation at the hard-to-follow wording of the regulations, especially this one, and many of the other 'currency' ones.