BoDEAN
Cabo Wabo Express
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First CFI job - Need assistance
- Thread starter BoDEAN
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bigD
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Gizbug, I've had a couple of margaritas tonight, so keep that in mind when reading my crap... 
I'd say go for it. I have the same "sounds too good to be true" instincts that the others have, but WTF? Just go for it and see how it turns out. If this job turns out to suck balls, walk away. But there's a chance that it's legit, and you'll get some good time and experience out of it.
Anyway, congrats on the opportunity! Regardless of how it turns out - you'll come out the wiser because of it.
I'd say go for it. I have the same "sounds too good to be true" instincts that the others have, but WTF? Just go for it and see how it turns out. If this job turns out to suck balls, walk away. But there's a chance that it's legit, and you'll get some good time and experience out of it.
Anyway, congrats on the opportunity! Regardless of how it turns out - you'll come out the wiser because of it.
Flyingtoohigh
Think of the Kittens
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bobbysamd
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Hmmmmm, Part II . . . . . .
I tend to get a peculiar feeling in my gut when I hear about jobs like these. I'm getting that feeling now. The impression I get is the guy is looking primarily for a body and is having trouble finding one because others he's met with know something that you (and us) do not.
Just think it over very carefully. You have to take a risk sometimes to gain something. You learn as you get older to carefully evaluate the risks you might take. At least the hours that go in your logbook from this job will always be yours . . . .
Good luck with your decision.
I tend to get a peculiar feeling in my gut when I hear about jobs like these. I'm getting that feeling now. The impression I get is the guy is looking primarily for a body and is having trouble finding one because others he's met with know something that you (and us) do not.
Just think it over very carefully. You have to take a risk sometimes to gain something. You learn as you get older to carefully evaluate the risks you might take. At least the hours that go in your logbook from this job will always be yours . . . .
Good luck with your decision.
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siucavflight
Back from the forsaken
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Gizbug,
I was just doing a little math here. In your original post you said that you were going to be averging about 12 hours a day. Making 27,000 a year. But now you say that you are going to be making 30 dollars an hour. That comes out to be 162,000 per year. And i was being generous and giving you off two days a week, and with 150 students i do not think that you will be getting off two days a week.
I think that you need to do some real investigation here. Either that or you are not being completely truthful here. Please let me know how he came up with 27,000 a year, and i got 162,000 per year.
I was just doing a little math here. In your original post you said that you were going to be averging about 12 hours a day. Making 27,000 a year. But now you say that you are going to be making 30 dollars an hour. That comes out to be 162,000 per year. And i was being generous and giving you off two days a week, and with 150 students i do not think that you will be getting off two days a week.
I think that you need to do some real investigation here. Either that or you are not being completely truthful here. Please let me know how he came up with 27,000 a year, and i got 162,000 per year.
bobbysamd
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Salary
That is still good pay. When can I begin? Not to mention the furloughees for whom it would take years to be recalled and gain enough seniority to hold equipment that pays that kind of money. There should be no shortage of applicants for this job.
In all seriousness, Gizbug, are you sure that you will be paid all of the $30? And you really will be working 12 hours a day consistently? That is doubtful during bad wx days. If you have primarily Private students, you will have many bad wx days when the crosswinds are too much to take up a student or ceilings are too low. I trust that you won't be one of those types who flies a student on bad days just to get his/her money.
Maybe what he meant is his student rate is $30 an hour but what he will pay you amounts to $27,000. When I do the math, it comes out to $6.25 an hour ($27,000 ÷ 360 days ÷ 12 hours a day). Although the bottom line is you're earning $27K a year, which is decent money for instructing, it is unconscionable for you to be paid only $6.25 an hour from the $30 he charges. And that may be only for flight time and maybe ground time. The rest of time spent changing oil on the airplanes, changing tires, monitoring 100-hours, and ferrying the aircraft for inspections and all other admin duties he dumps on you will be done gratis. Better determine the basis on which he would pay you $30 per hour. You indeed may be working a lot for him for free. You have to put up with a certain amount of unpaid hours as a flight instructor, but there are limits.
Just more food for thought. I realize that you are eager; I would be, too, if I knew my first aviation job was within reach. I reiterate my ill feeling that I expressed above. I still don't like the bit about how the guy is anxious to hire you but wants to give you a Private "ride."
I came up with $129,600, using a standard 360-day business year ($30/hr. x 12 x 360). I did not count the ground school pay.siucavflight said:
That is still good pay. When can I begin? Not to mention the furloughees for whom it would take years to be recalled and gain enough seniority to hold equipment that pays that kind of money. There should be no shortage of applicants for this job.
In all seriousness, Gizbug, are you sure that you will be paid all of the $30? And you really will be working 12 hours a day consistently? That is doubtful during bad wx days. If you have primarily Private students, you will have many bad wx days when the crosswinds are too much to take up a student or ceilings are too low. I trust that you won't be one of those types who flies a student on bad days just to get his/her money.
Maybe what he meant is his student rate is $30 an hour but what he will pay you amounts to $27,000. When I do the math, it comes out to $6.25 an hour ($27,000 ÷ 360 days ÷ 12 hours a day). Although the bottom line is you're earning $27K a year, which is decent money for instructing, it is unconscionable for you to be paid only $6.25 an hour from the $30 he charges. And that may be only for flight time and maybe ground time. The rest of time spent changing oil on the airplanes, changing tires, monitoring 100-hours, and ferrying the aircraft for inspections and all other admin duties he dumps on you will be done gratis. Better determine the basis on which he would pay you $30 per hour. You indeed may be working a lot for him for free. You have to put up with a certain amount of unpaid hours as a flight instructor, but there are limits.
Just more food for thought. I realize that you are eager; I would be, too, if I knew my first aviation job was within reach. I reiterate my ill feeling that I expressed above. I still don't like the bit about how the guy is anxious to hire you but wants to give you a Private "ride."
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Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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I'd be very tempted to offer to work for him for ONE WEEK, with no strings. If, at the end of said week, more than one thing that he has said to you is not true, especially the $30 per hour x 12 hours, then you should get in the car and drive the twenty minutes to his old partner's father's school.
Just another two cents. I'd temper my enthusiasm with some cold reality, then move ahead.
Just another two cents. I'd temper my enthusiasm with some cold reality, then move ahead.
great cornholio
Are you threatening me??
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Gizbug
Like it has been said before something seems kinda messy about this deal. I just looked at the website you posted and I was trying to find out the rates but did really see anything except for "as low as 60" but Im feelin kinda lazy so I didnt look all that hard. But I would say that by far you need to find out what you get paid for. When I was instructing last year the company charged the student 27 and I got 13.50 of that. The owner of the school was pretty cool and told us that the other 13.50 per hour went toward hangar rent, utilities, and to stock the employee fridge with free drinks, etc. So it seemed pretty fair. But if this guy is charging 30 and you only get 6.25 then thats a rip off what is he using that other 23.75 for? Also like it was said as a CFI you do spent WAY TOO MUCH time at work with out getting paid. IE bad wx days, instructor meetings, etc. But if he is going to make you help out with the mx and ferry the planes 40 miles away then you need to make sure that you get paid for it. Like it was said being a CFI makes you work for free some but there is a limit to it. And it sounds like this guy might be over the limit. Well anyways I really hope this works out for you, but you might want to keep your options open and look at other schools in the area.
Like it has been said before something seems kinda messy about this deal. I just looked at the website you posted and I was trying to find out the rates but did really see anything except for "as low as 60" but Im feelin kinda lazy so I didnt look all that hard. But I would say that by far you need to find out what you get paid for. When I was instructing last year the company charged the student 27 and I got 13.50 of that. The owner of the school was pretty cool and told us that the other 13.50 per hour went toward hangar rent, utilities, and to stock the employee fridge with free drinks, etc. So it seemed pretty fair. But if this guy is charging 30 and you only get 6.25 then thats a rip off what is he using that other 23.75 for? Also like it was said as a CFI you do spent WAY TOO MUCH time at work with out getting paid. IE bad wx days, instructor meetings, etc. But if he is going to make you help out with the mx and ferry the planes 40 miles away then you need to make sure that you get paid for it. Like it was said being a CFI makes you work for free some but there is a limit to it. And it sounds like this guy might be over the limit. Well anyways I really hope this works out for you, but you might want to keep your options open and look at other schools in the area.
BoDEAN
Cabo Wabo Express
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GOT A JOB!
Well, I found another place in West Michigan, and they hired me. Part 61 school. Great atmosphere. I will get paid 20/hr, and be able to use me AGI for ground schools. The chief told me he has a hard time with one of his instructors now just "being at the airport" all the time. i told him I would have no problem being out there, getting business of the streets/ be a pilot.com/calls.
Very excited, and they cover me insurance wise. Nice way to start off the weekend!
Thanks all to those who have provided assistance, it has meant a lot and has been taken in =)
Well, I found another place in West Michigan, and they hired me. Part 61 school. Great atmosphere. I will get paid 20/hr, and be able to use me AGI for ground schools. The chief told me he has a hard time with one of his instructors now just "being at the airport" all the time. i told him I would have no problem being out there, getting business of the streets/ be a pilot.com/calls.
Very excited, and they cover me insurance wise. Nice way to start off the weekend!
Thanks all to those who have provided assistance, it has meant a lot and has been taken in =)
Timebuilder
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bobbysamd
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See?? I told ya . . . .
I found in my experience over many years looking for jobs that you can beat your head against the wall for months looking for work. Then you get one offer. After that, it seems like everyone wants you. It must be kharma or something.
What a way to start Labor Day Weekend.
Best of luck with your new job. Keep us updated on how it's going.
Congratulations, my friend. Aren't you glad you held off on taking the other "job"? This gig sounds many times better than your other offer, especially how you will have health insurance.gizbug said:
I found in my experience over many years looking for jobs that you can beat your head against the wall for months looking for work. Then you get one offer. After that, it seems like everyone wants you. It must be kharma or something.
What a way to start Labor Day Weekend.
Best of luck with your new job. Keep us updated on how it's going.
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