Fires......

[avbug]

No helicopter platform will be used as a lead...I don't think that's ever been remotely considered.

USFS doesn't do a combined lead/attack role: that's the ASM job put out by BLM.

The AH-1 would make a good longline platform, but there are also better aircraft. The principle attraction to the cobra is it's acquisition cost for various agencies. The USFS is fielding some 407's presently, which appear to be good aircraft for their role in a helittack use.

The only time helo's are used for an air attack role is more of either fast recon during hellittack duties (prior to setting up an LZ), or on a large complex fire when a heliboss is assigned. In general, however, the helicopters are worked by the same fixed wing air attack.

The issue with using helicopters for an air attack role is primarily one of cost. It's a whole lot cheaper to put a Twin Commander up there than it is to put up an L-3 or 212.

FDF does have some AH-1's, and they are using them.

 

[milwan]

No helicopter platform will be used as a lead...I don't think that's ever been remotely considered.

Actually Avbug, they have considered it. Then they shelved it. Hopefully for good.

 

[DC-3TP]

Fire Snake

Milwan,
I think you are wrong. They call it the Firesnake. It will be used in Califorina and will be performing the ASM role. It is happning dude. Leadplanes are going away and the Leadplane pilots are becoming highly skilled Smokejumper captains, if they can meet the high standards.

 

[milwan]

DC-3tp
Well, that shouldn't be too hard. At least they aren't trying to turn the smokejumper pilots into leadplane pilots.

 

[avbug]

California already uses OV-10A's for that role, and O-2's.

 

[LR25]

About a 1 1/2 ago I saw the FL Forestry with there AH-1 in TLH.

Red and white.

What ever happened to the A-10 tanker?

 

[avbug]

The cobras were coming aboard the first year we did the fire storms down there, and were in use the next year. I saw them in TLH and at Lake City.

The A-10's are a pet project of a group of A-10 drivers. The impetus behind the A-10's was a covert attempt to sell them to foriegn countries by certain intelligence agencies, couched in a deal a decade ago in which military airplanes were provided to civillain contractors as air tankers.

Presently the group trying to promote the A-10 is a private effort which has nothing at all to do with the origional A-10 effort. The airplane was never seriously considered for fire work. The group trying to promote the airplane presently is called Firehogs. Entertaining, argumentative, zero experience in fire, but very enthusiastic.

 

[DC-3TP]

More on Firesnake

The Firesnake (modified Cobra) will be used by the USFS and crewed by FS pilots. The OV-10's and O-2's used by CDF are Air Attack platforms. I don't think they provide the full mission like the BLM ASM platforms and the FS Leadplanes. They don't have the low level responsibilities that are part of the Lead mission. Maybe Milwan can expand on the subject and clear up this discussion.

 

[milwan]

DC-3tp,
You are correct. The CDF O-2 and OV-10 are only used for air attack. They are not used as leadplanes or ASM

 

[flyingwildfires]

Airtankers ready so far....

I hear there are only two airtankers ready and carded so far for 2003... both are P-3s..... anybody know if this is true? Awfully late in the year if so....

 

[DC4boy]

Tanker 21, a P-3, is on at Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Not sure about the other one. Last word for my aircraft was end of may. Contract was supposed to start 01 March.

Gonna be quite interesting.

Whats the latest for the Leads

 

[flyingwildfires]

leads for 2003......

I have heard some rumors about leads, they have varied from 50% of the baron fleet being grounded from that mission, to the latest version, which was an estimate of maybe a third of the fleet being cut out. I don't really know. Last I heard on sherpas was that they would be used but with a look to their second segment climb performance, don't really know if that is for sure or not. I hate to mention rumors but that is all we seem to hear lately.
The national fire forecast says it won't be as wild a year as the last two..... who knows though, except for Big Ernie????
Keep the greasy side down.......

 

[414Flyer]

Well we will see. With a lot of the tankers not flying possibly, and with the bark beetles killing off a lot of trees, could still get hairy.

 

[milwan]

There are seven barons that will be used for leads this year. The rest have over 6000 hours and are grounded

 

[flyingwildfires]

leads, helicopters, tankers, yeah, yeah,

Let's see... the helipukes have been saying for decades that they have seen "the end of the useless fixed-wings", and the fixed wing guys have laughed for years about the efficinecy of helicopters that "can't leave the county without refueling"..... as a (former and current) member of both camps, I'd LOVE to hear the discourse from both sides....... c'mon drivers, which works and which doesn't???

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

T-26 came into Albuquerque last week. Sure like seeing them fly over the city right now...

On all of the property I take care of, in central NM we've got 80 percent (not a typo) of the trees dead from bark beetles on South facing slopes. It's ugly as all get out. I've burned over 20 gallong of gas in my Stihl, and we're RAF from close to having even defensible space around the house or shop.

Guess it's a good thing I don't have a job right now, least I got time to cut down trees! Luckily you don't have to go too far north for it to get better, Southern CO is around 85 percent of snowfall right now. They also changed the "avalanche danger" signs to "fire danger" signs this week in the San Juans--not a good sign.

Dan

 

[avbug]

Not a good thing? That's a great thing! Job security.

There is room, and need for, all types of aircraft on fires. Helicopters have a place, as do SEATS and various heavy tankers. Leads have a place...there are a number of fires I wouldn't have wanted to be on without a leadplane. Smoke ops certainly have their place with jumpers and paracargo.

Air attack is crucial, and recent events such as Storm King have shown that more, not less air assets are needed (air assets were in use, but better overhead wx and wind info would have played an important role in chaning what happened).

Personally I believe the 4Y's shouldn't have been grounded: they have a firm place in the industry, politics not withstanding.