Fire Fighting Cargo Planes?

[rfresh]

I live in the Los Angeles area and with all the fires this week I watched the air tankers do their thing.

I noticed the tankers are all built for fire fighting but with so many fires and the shortage of tankers, I wondered why doesn't someone come up with a portable water tankering system that could be installed in a cargo plane like the C-130 and turn it into a fire fighting plane. Then when the need is gone, take out the tankering system and return the C-130 to it's normal missions.

Is this a good idea or are there just too many engineering complications to make this work?

I saw the DC-10 Tanker pilot talking on TV and he said it took 5 years to modify that DC-10 to be a fire fighting tanker. I guess that means you cannot just take a cargo plane, install a portable tankering system in it and turn it into a temp air tanker?

 

[propsarebest]

The military has a conversion for the C-130...

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

why doesn't someone come up with a portable water tankering system that could be installed in a cargo plane like the C-130 and turn it into a fire fighting plane.

Is this a good idea or are there just too many engineering complications to make this work?

Bingo! Plus, it requires a fair amount of training and practice to become an effective air tanker pilot. It's not the kind of thing one does on a part-time basis.

That DC-10 was su-weeeeet! But then, at $41,000/day (standby) + $5,000/flt hr, it ought to be sweet.

 

[Lucky13]

USAF has a bunch out of Peterson AFB in CO.

 

[Rick1128]

Evergreen's Super Tanker (B747) was setup to be convertible between cargo and tanker. However, it took two days or so to do the conversion. They were also setting it up with NVG and FLIR so they could conduct drops at night. Due to FAA and USFS intransigence the program is on the back burner right now.

 

[Lucky13]

Years ago a group toyed with using A-10s. The gun and magazine giving way to a tank for the borite. The idea was to have four of them rolling in on a fire at a time. They had a real CG issue when they removed the barrels, so that idea was scraped. Sounded like a good idea and I'm sure a lot more pilots would want to fly tankers.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Yep, USAF C130s. They call the system MAFFS (Modular Air Firefighting System) uses a pressurized tank to propel a retardant water mix. The system isn't quite as effective as the "door" systems you'll find on specific fire conversions like Aero Union's P3s or Neptune's P2s.

 

[avbug]

I noticed the tankers are all built for fire fighting but with so many fires and the shortage of tankers, I wondered why doesn't someone come up with a portable water tankering system that could be installed in a cargo plane like the C-130 and turn it into a fire fighting plane.

There isn't and wasn't a tanker shortage. There is a funding shortage. There was also too much wind to be launching tankers on fires, and you can't put every tanker in the country in a small parcel of low visibility airspace close to the hills with no radar support in severe or greater turbulence in conditions that exceed the capabilities of the airplanes...which the winds down there certainly did.

The current doctrine is 30 knots over the fire for the cutoff point, and winds at times exceeded 100 knots. 30 can produce severe turbulence or greater, and downdrafts and rotors that exceed the capabilities of the airplane by a wide margin. 100 knots is suicidal in the mountains.

Aircraft couldn't fly because conditions didn't permit it. The aircraft were available.

One doesn't simply tank an airplane and send an inexperienced crew to fly it. The DC-10 already hit the hillside right out of the gate this year when it was fielded with a no-experience crew.

Then again, that's part of the reason that the federal government isn't footing the bill for the airplane, and the State of California is...

 

[PHXFLYR]

Did the DC-10 actually hit the hillside? Or is that a term used by Tanker pilots to indicate a successful retardant drop on a fire?

PHXFLYR

 

[propsarebest]

Did the DC-10 actually hit the hillside? Or is that a term used by Tanker pilots to indicate a successful retardant drop on a fire?

PHXFLYR

It hit some trees- took a portion of the left slat off and tweaked the aileron pretty bad.