Fine Air

[BigFlyr]

Anyone out there know anything about FINE AIR other than they are based in MIA and have crappy old DC-8s? They're starting to look pretty good if you know what I mean.

 

[Snakum]

Just as an aside ...

I know it ain't glamerous ... and it probably don't pay well ... but I met a young guy (20s) at GSO two years ago who went to work with one of those cargo outfits (Fine or Arrow?) on the DC-8 panel at 500 hours in 1999, to the left seat at 1200, and is probably a DC-8 Captain by now.

A DC-8? I could do that aaaaaaaaall day.

Minh

 

[mrvmo]

Fine Air and another company merged (I can't remember the other company's name.) Anyway the new company is called Arrow Air. They are Miami based and they do fly DC-8's. Don't know much else about the place other than they do some South and Central America stuff. I believe they are all cargo.

 

[BigFlyr]

I think you got it bassackwards...
Fine Air bought-out Arrow Air... its still Fine Air and they're hiring...into which seat I don't know but I intend to find out. Arrow Air's call sign was "Big A"... Now it's "Big F'n A"

 

[DC10]

My airline does charters for Fine Air on a regular basis. I have flown for them on a few trips. From what I can tell they have around 20 DC8s, most of which appear to be different models, ranging from -54 series that look like they are 40 years old, to newer (a relative term when you're talking about DC8s) -62 series aircraft. They had 4 L1011s until recently but just parked them all.

Their operation is mainly a hub and spoke system from Miami to various points in the Caribbean, Central and South America. 90% appears to be night flying. Maybe their DC8 operation is a little better organized than when they use us for charters, but what I have seen is a cluster f**k. Departures are usually hours later than scheduled. In fact regardless of scheduled departure time, our crews don't even leave home or the hotel until we have received word that cargo loading has actually started. A scheduled 2 hour turn somewhere like Managua, Nicaragua regularly turns into a 5-9 hour ordeal waiting for cargo to be loaded. However we may fly the same route the very next night and be in and out of there in an hour and a half. It's very unpredictable.

Having said that, they must be doing something right as they have been in business for 20+ years. Sorry I can't provide any information regarding hiring, but if I find anything out I'll post it.

 

[BigFlyr]

They're starting a class on Sept. 30th but it's already full. Might have another one in January. A day late and a dollar short...Story of my life!

 

[Publishers]

AH

I think the real deal is that Fine indeed went and bought Arrow and then went bankrupt after their public offering fell through due to the crash the day of the offering.

A new individual (company) came in and took over and went back to the Arrow name. Dick Haberly returned from Florida West to run the new organization.

 

[BigFlyr]

Re: AH

I think the real deal is that Fine indeed went and bought Arrow and then went bankrupt after their public offering fell through due to the crash the day of the offering.

Which crash are you talking about? The one back in 96 or 97 coming out of MIA?

 

[jborsdrf]

I have a buddy in class at fine air right now, got picked up low time but he may be the exception, he says alot of ex US airways guys are in his class. According to him his class is about 20 people another class behind him of twenty then anybodys guess. Pay is $54 an hour with a 50 hour gaurantee (as a FE). Per diem wasn't bad but I can't remember the exact number. They still have airport reserve that requires you to sit in room by yourself seperated from other fligth crews. Reserve call out for off airport is 3 hours. Their major contract is flying live ordenance to Diego Garcia for the military, with out an alternate. What the hell beats working at home depot right

 

[mrvmo]

Don't know who bought who but I can tell you that the new entity is Arrow Air. I just had lunch across from the hanger at MIA today. Ever been to Tom's NFL. Great fried dolphin. Anyway it's Arrow Air. Come see for yourself.

 

[jborsdrf]

You're right it is Arrow Air, it seems as though a lot of people working there still refer to it as FIne Air. Is Toms NFL the place across from the Pan Am building ?

 

[mrvmo]

Yea it's across the street and just about a block west of the Pan Am building. They have pretty good happy hour specials to. On Thursdays it's five beers for eight bucks. All the food seems to be pretty good to.

 

[Publishers]

Fine

Frank Fine has no interest at this point in Arrow Air

 

[LearAv8r]

Ok, after sitting back and watching for a while I had to jump in. I was at Fine Air back around 1998. The deal there is that this is the time of year that the company hires a bunch of people, usually low time guys and trains them. They will use those crews to get them throught the holidays (increased freight, christmas, etc..) and then lay them off. I should know I was one of them and have seen this happen ever year. Also Arrow Air was originally sold to a different company and then acquired by Fine Air later. It is my guess that this was originally planned from the start. [between Frank Fine and Tony Tierre (sp)]

Frank and Barry Fine had a loan from Loy'ds of London for 200 million a while back. Part of the deal was that they had to have "allocated" the money before the payments were due (or in that general area) thus Arrow Air. The 50 and 60 series a/c that Fine has are junk, they were bought cheap and made flyable again. The Hush Kits on the a/c are also junk and don't work. Fine bought the company that made the kits. Too many limitations on the a/c weight to make the restrictions.

I have had three friends who had low time go over there and I have told each of them not to go. They see the 8's and get blurry eyed or somethng and go over there and of course they are all looking for a job.

Frank and Barry Fine and John Zappia are all crooks as far as I am concerned.

That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.......

LearAv8r-

 

[BigFlyr]

I have had three friends who had low time go over there and I have told each of them not to go. They see the 8's and get blurry eyed or somethng and go over there and of course they are all looking for a job.

Thanks for clearing that up...sounds right to me. Yes, it's unfortunate that both Fine Air and previously Arrow Air are well known for their hire and fire tactics. Only the most senior guys are there for any duration at all and morale in these companies tends to be very low. But like you said, lots of guys get stars in their eyes when they think about flying a DC-8 as compared to where they are now... at a low paying 135 operation or even worse, in front of a computer like yours truely!

 

[greasy8driver]

I worked for the Big A for three years. One of which was after the fine air buyout. Arrow was a fun place to work (for a young single guy) alot of BS but a good group of pilots. When I left I was at 66/hr. and 1.80/hr per diem. After Fine bought Arrow it went down hill fast (Frank and Barry are dirt bags) and into bankrupcy. I guess Frank and Barry were escorted off the property and there is a new owner and they are currently out of bankrupcy. As the earlier post stated they always beef up for the holiday season and furlough around feb. march, I bypassed that luckily. If you don't mind long duty days and some BS go do it. Its not a career job but you will get great international heavy jet experience. I got to fly through just about every continent in 3yrs.

Good Luck,

 

[buckdanny]

Sounds like a nice company as a starting job to build time and experience, but what kind of minimums are they looking at? Flying DC8s, they must have some pretty high mins, wouldn't pilots that meet them want to go fly for a better airline like fedex?

Buckdanny

 

[mrvmo]

You mean formerly Fine and now Arrow right? I thought that's what you meant. You had me worrying for a second.

 

[Snakum]

"Flying DC8s, they must have some pretty high mins"

Possibly, they do now. But, the guy I mentioned previously moved from FE to FO at 1200 TT. And one of the hang-arounds at the airport I used to haunt (a retired USAir Captain) also knew someone at Arrow who was right seat on the DC-8 at "around 1000 hours".

That said however, this was happening during the time COEX hired a CFI friend of mine at 650/200. From 1998 to early 2001 when everyone was hiring I imagine operators like Fine/Arrow, ATI, Tradewinds, etc. lowered their mins considerably.

I can just imagine their thinking ... "Who wants to fly an old, ratty, smoking DC-8 to stinkholes all over South America when Eagle and Coex can put 'em in a spiffy new ERJ? We'd better lower our mins to fill some seats!".

Now, with so many experienced pilots out looking for work ... their mins are probably in line with Polar and Atlas. Now, the answer to the "Who wants to fly an old DC-8 ..." question is "About a thousand guys in a ten-mile radius!".

Best of luck with 'em. If you do get in, how about filling us in on what it's like? We hear alot about regional and corporate lifestyles but rarely anything on the second-tier freighters.

Minh "Praying for a flight this month." Thong

 

[buckdanny]

I never really about this company until this thread came in.. I wish I could apply with them, but unfortunatly with the situation today I can say that I only have 1200 hours.. Now you friend who upgraded with 1200 was an FE before, so he knew the airplane inside out. I wish I could have a shot at flying a 4 engine jet, even if it's old and smoky at least just for the experience. Right now I'm more looking at ameriflight. Don't worry, I will fill in with info about anything that works out for me.

Buckdanny