Financial question

[AMRCostUnit]

Also remember, in regards to the Roth, that you'll reach a point in the future where you'll make to much money to legally contribute...
D-Bo

I used to have that problem...not anymore.

Unit
Back to Roth-land in 2003

P.S. I think the phase-out and upper limit increase in future years.

 

[Hpilot]

Everything I have read says:
1. Pay off credit cards due to high interest rates.
2. Have 6mos living expenses liquid in savings/brokerage acct.
3. Max 401k to reduce taxible income plus get company match
4. Max Roth Contribution so money can grow tax free
5. Contribute to IRA or personal brokerage account
6. If you wanna keep the late J.C. happy, give 10% to your church.
7. Buy lottery tickets, loud motorcycles, old airplanes, muscle cars, and every Motley Crue and David Allen Coe CD on the market.

Good Advice. Another option if you're looking for a conservative one is to make an extra house payment every year. I do this, plus 1-5 above with an occasional 6&7. Oh yeah, if you can't marry rich don't marry a trophy wife. My friend did. Nothing like making several hundred thousand a year and not having enough left over for taxes. Plus she doesn't even put out.

 

[Pilottodd2]

Since we are on the subject...

What does 401(k) actually mean?
I know there is a 401(a) (post-tax), but is there a 401(b), 401(c), etc...

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the actual money that comes from your 401(k) or your Roth IRA go essentially to the same place. i.e. I could invest x% of my 401(k) in good-ole-boy mutual funds and also invest y% in the same good-ole-boy funds. The only difference is that the company 401(k)'s offerings are somewhat limited to the Roth IRA's.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Since we are on the subject...

What does 401(k) actually mean?
I know there is a 401(a) (post-tax), but is there a 401(b), 401(c), etc...

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the actual money that comes from your 401(k) or your Roth IRA go essentially to the same place. i.e. I could invest x% of my 401(k) in good-ole-boy mutual funds and also invest y% in the same good-ole-boy funds. The only difference is that the company 401(k)'s offerings are somewhat limited to the Roth IRA's.

401 (K) is the section of the IRS tax code that sets up the ability to invest in this way. THere are other such accounts like 403's (gov workers) and 457's.

What you can invest in is dependant on what your company sets up as options. You could have an IRA with TROWPRICE and a 401K with TROWPRICE. But they are seperate under the TAX CODE. A Roth IRA is another type of retirement set up by the tax code. You usually have more options whith a ROTH or IRA you set up yourself than one provided by a company (saves the company money probably).

SS

 

[SWPA Pilot]

Fellas and Chicas-

I'll try to back up my opinion with a little math...not sure if it is correct though.

401k up to match first to take advantage of 100% return.

Sencond, consider maxing out your 401K. Pre tax dollars grow at rate great enough to offset the taxes when you retire. To demonstrate this go to savings calculator web site (there are many) and calculate a thirty year savings goal. Input values that reflect pretax (401k) and post tax (Roth) ammounts. For example if you want to contribute $100.00 of your gross salary every month. 401k would be all $100.00 and the Roth would be around $72 for the average tax payer. I'll assume an 8% rate of return for both.

Here goes: Roth= $864 per year, APR 8% for 30 years = $97877 tax free on the end. 401K= $1200 per year, APR 8% for 30 years = $135,000 with 25% tax of $33985 (probably not going to be anywhere near this high because of retirement) = $101955

The advantage goes to 401k every time, however, Roth offers the ability to invest in any thing you want. In other words you are not limited to the few funds your company may have.

I ran the numbers as well and came up with a similar outcome. So, it seems like it may be better to keep the 401K maxed, and then do the Roth if there is money left over. If this is the case, why is there such a hype to max out the Roth first if it probably won't get you more money in the end?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Roths are not completely useless. They hype is probably by the investment companies trying to get more money out of people.

I use the Roth IRA as a savings tool for my kids education. We are just under the $150,000 household income cap for the ROth. We have been saving 2000 a year for our kids college education. The benefits being that the money can be withdrawn tax free for college education and the money you put in can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. Plus the money is controlled by ME and my 18 year old son can't decide to buy a corvette instead of go to college (or try to become a pilot). A lot of the college savings plans are in the childs name and thus can be controlled by the child when he grows up. Plus you have more options than lots of the college plans. Both in investment options and where the child can go to school. Plus anything left over goes right into my own retirement fund, or to buy myself a corvette!!

SS

 

[Dorkpilot]

Fellas and Chicas-

I'll try to back up my opinion with a little math...not sure if it is correct though.

401k up to match first to take advantage of 100% return.

Sencond, consider maxing out your 401K. Pre tax dollars grow at rate great enough to offset the taxes when you retire. To demonstrate this go to savings calculator web site (there are many) and calculate a thirty year savings goal. Input values that reflect pretax (401k) and post tax (Roth) ammounts. For example if you want to contribute $100.00 of your gross salary every month. 401k would be all $100.00 and the Roth would be around $72 for the average tax payer. I'll assume an 8% rate of return for both.

Here goes: Roth= $864 per year, APR 8% for 30 years = $97877 tax free on the end. 401K= $1200 per year, APR 8% for 30 years = $135,000 with 25% tax of $33985 (probably not going to be anywhere near this high because of retirement) = $101955

The advantage goes to 401k every time, however, Roth offers the ability to invest in any thing you want. In other words you are not limited to the few funds your company may have.

Not always. You are considering you are in a 28% tax bracket now (1200x.72=864), and are retiring to a 25% tax bracket. If your tax bracket is the same before retirement and after retirement then your retirement checks will be equal for both the Roth and 401k.

The advantage goes to the Roth when you make less now (ie. commuter pilot) and hoping to get a better job down the road. (Then you will change your retirement planning to pre tax dollars ie. 401k after you get the higher paying job)...or if you will be in the same tax bracket that you are in now in retirement.

For example if you are currently in the 15% tax bracket and retiring to a 25% tax bracket because you did well in your saving and later moved to a higher paying job.

1200x.85=1020

1020 at 8% for 30 years =115,550 tax free Vs. 101955 401k money at the higher 25% tax bracket


**You can withdraw contributions from a roth penalty and tax free at any time.

**You can invest in anything you want (Roth) Vs. limited mutual funds in a 401k.

**And as squirrel mentioned, you can by the corvet before age 60 and 1/2 or use the Roth to help pay for your kids education Vs penalties for using the 401k for that purpose.

**You can also use the Roth as a tax advantaged savings account...because you can always take the contributions out without penalty or taxes. And after the 5 year savings date, you can take out the earnings too!


There are many more options with a Roth Vs a 401k. There are just different tax considerations for different people. If you will be in the same or higher tax bracket after retirement then the Roth is the best bet for you. (The Roth is perfect for commuter FO's and a lot of commuter CA's which pay nothing in taxes. Just make sure you get your company match in the 401k first.)

When retiring, you can always withdraw just enough of the 401k money (in retirement) to put you up to the edge of the next higher tax bracket and then withdraw the rest from the Roth which is tax free upon withdrawl and take and pay the least amount of taxes.


Check out this website. It clearly lists the advantages of the Roth IRA and what you can do with it.

www.fool.com

click on IRA and explore the different options...

If you are currently in the 15% tax bracket or less, then you should most likely:

1. Put in the min amount to get the full 401k match by your company
2. Max out the Roth IRA
3. Then max out your 401k.

DP

 

[Dorkpilot]

PS. The best mutual fund in my 401k has returned 8% as of yesterday Vs. 15% for my Roth IRA for the year.



I'm in the 15% tax bracket so I'm contributing to the Roth as I suggested in my last post.

Not trying to start a flame war. Just stating different strokes for different folks.

DP

 

[fire0241]

Best financial advice.........

Marry someone you will not divorce or don't get married.

Divorce can destroy a retirement.

 

[Swaayze]

Careful, you can't take out earnings penalty free after 5 years unless you're "of age". You can take out contributions after you've had the account 5 years. The penalty-free withdrawls are much friendlier w/ a Roth in general: contributions, medical, 1st home (w/ limits). And if you don't use it all before you die your heirs are much better off if you pass down a Roth.

There are some variables wrt your current and future tax brackets. Don't forget that both contributions and earnings in a 401k (and traditional IRA) will be taxed at your future rate (nothing tax free). Roth contributions are taxed at your current rate, but earnings are tax free.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Oh yeah, if you can't marry rich don't marry a trophy wife. My friend did. Nothing like making several hundred thousand a year and not having enough left over for taxes. Plus she doesn't even put out.

I didn't marry a trophy wife - she still spends it all and does not put out- dang the bad luck.

A wise man once told me if it flys, floats or f__ks, it is cheaper to rent it...