Felony revisited

[Erlanger]

O.K. A friend of mine, has been trying to get a 121 job for some time now, and can't seem to land one. He is well qualified but he has this felony record that is almost 10 years old. He has interviewed with several carriers; regionals and majors. He brings it up in the interview and he gets a thanks but no thanks reply even though he has explained the exemplary life he has lived since. He was discharged from the military for forgery and larceny in lieu of a court martial. He probably also has to disclose the fact that he was also in the military. Could he ever get a job or even get an airport badge? He been flying for a 135 operator and has a couple of type ratings. After 10 years will it disappear or atleast not be disclosed to a potential employer? He's getting pretty discouraged and he really is a good guy!

 

[troy]

He will not be able to get the SIDA badge. A felony larceny conviction will disqual him.

 

[TDTURBO]

On the brighter side if he gets a few more Felonies, he can always run for and hold political office.

 

[Axel]

Not much sympathy.

Your bud should have been an honest guy. Failing that, he should have considered the long term consequences of being caught lying and stealing before he chose to do so.

Now he pays the price. I wonder how much he stole and whether it was worth it?

 

[FN FAL]

Axel, you shouldn't ponitificate. The only difference between you and the felon, is the conviction

 

[Axel]

I love irony

Indeed. "Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone." And you don't need to shout .

No sympathy. The guy screwed up and got caught and there is now the consequence to be paid. He is competing for limited jobs with people who have not been convicted of felonies and is therefore EDIT IN: [at a competitive disadvantage] and is [more likely to be] shown the door.

Welcome to the real world. (edited from the previous "Natural selection")

 

[FN FAL]

He is competing for limited jobs with people who have no felony convictions and is therefore not competitive and is shown the door.

What are you talking about? He is not shown the door...he is working in 135. He may be shown the door, because of other factors. Since you don't know any of those factors or all the factors, you are pontificating. And don't tell me you never stole nuthing in your whole life either, just so's I don't have to call you a liar also.

Natural selection...what kind of lingo is that? Airline hiring is natural selection? Dude, quit smoking them peyote buttons...they took back the Northwest Airline pilot that got prison over flying drunk. They hire minorities with dubious skills. Don't tell me about natural selection.

 

[Axel]

I did not deliberately forge and steal. I would also assume that the chances are good the discharge in leiu of court martial may have been less than honorable. Just a guess. So, here we are at the interview:

"Tell me about your prior military service, Mr. Jones."

"I see."

"And forgery, too, you say."

"So your discharge was...I see. (Glancing at the two-foot tall stack of resumes) Ahem, uh, well we'll uh, beintouchthanksforcomingintoday."

Lyle was rehired, as I recall, through the auspices of the ADA, which considers alcholism a disability and made it actually illegal NOT to rehire him.

 

[350DRIVER]

Unfortunately I do not think he is going to have very much luck at all.. I tend to agree with Troy, does not sound like a very promising situation to be in.

3 5 0

 

[JetSpeed219]

Erlanger: Did your buddy get his 135 position before, or after his felony conviction?

 

[Erlanger]

He enlisted in the military after high school, and didn't make it through boot camp because of this problem. What he says happened was he was owed money by another in camp and so he took one of his checks from his locker and filled it out and cashed it. Dumb thing to do he admits, and now he is paying the price. He decided to be a pilot a few years later, got a 4 year degree and his ratings and CFI'ed a bit and then got a 135 job.
He faxed me a copy of the record and it doesn't say anything about convictions but says "charge: larceny and forgery, administrative discharge in lieu of court martial, no further prosecutory action required.
He's trying to talk himself into it meaning that was no conviction.
Also he says he never signed anything admitting guilt.
Simply, I told him to get a good lawyer who knows military law, but I also told him this is probably going to be hard to remove. Probably impossible!

 

[Snakum]

This is not the same thing as a civil felony conviction. What does his DD214 actually say?

Most won't like the advice, but have the guy pull his DD214, local, state and federal record and if the only place this stunt can be found is on some military report ... he should probably keep his mouth shut next interview. Don't ask ... don't tell.

Minh

 

[sf3boy]

Erlanger,
I am glad to hear that your friend has "turned over a new leaf." However, I am sad to say that I doubt he would be able to hold a SIDA badge. Not required, but most airlines prefer pilots to have them at their home base (unless you're based in MSP.) We had a FA get canned for having a felony and not reporting it. After 6 years of service, he was found out when the MEM airport required the FBI to process SIDA badge holder's fingerprints.

On a side note, if your friend would like to revisit the life of crime,which I doubt he does, he should apply to Mesaba. A chief pilot or DFO job would be a good fit for someone who is, shall we say, legally challenged.

 

[Erlanger]

Previous info was from FBI records.
DD214 says, under Reason for Separation: In lieu of trial by court martial. And under Character of Service it says; Other then honorable discharge.

It doesn't mention the larceny or forgery charge.

No other info. concerning this matter is on the DD214.

As far as not telling an employer about this, I understand that a military background check is usually done whether you state that you have military service or not. So he ain't getting away with this.

 

[Snakum]

Sounds like he's screwed. Sorry to hear that.

I've met a lot of guys who've made a decent career out of 135, including one old fart (older than me, even) who spent his entire career flying piston twin and Caravan freighters or King Airs on Part 135. He was wise with his money and will retire in the next five to ten years to fish full time in Topsail Island. It ain't exactly the same as 30 years at Delta, but he said he's loved the life and will live comfortably when he hangs it up.

So ... things could be worse.


Minh

 

[JetSpeed219]

So then it's possible to get a 135 job with a felony????

 

[Snakum]

Not sure how it applies to 135, if at all, but ...

Under the new rules for unescorted access, specific offenses are listed as disqualifying. In most states, a DWI is now a felony, but it is not on the list of offenses. So, theoretically, you could be hired at SWA with a felony not on the list. But good luck actually getting on with one (a non-DWI offense). I had a misdemeanor over ten years ago (non DWI) and I've had two regional HR people tell me that I might need to 'change my career expectations'.

Minh

 

[troy]

For anyone looking at the DD214, a OTH (other than honorable) is a red flag. Will probably take an act of congress to change the checkbox on the DD214.