FedEX, Pilots mediated talks proceed...

[skykid]

No doubt the mystery of the freight terminal and often night flights deter many from trying to commute on FedEx. Crashpad ought to think about the millions FedEx spends on airline tickets, including his airline, before starting rants like this. The amount of deadheading going on to start and end trips is incredible, and helps your bottom line.

 

[crashpad]

Learning is a change in behavior as a result of experience and I am enlightened. I just wish I could climb and bank the way you do on take off.

 

[stonewall]

FEDEX...WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY MUST BE DESTROYED OVERNIGHT.

I don't get it. What are you trying to say? That FDX pilots are destroying our airline? Weak attempt to be witty?

 

[RS6]

More mumbo jumbo from management. My MEC speaks for me.

Ok KC10, what is your MEC's #'s for average pilot pay?

 

[stonewall]

RS6, we have 4500 pilots, and the pay scales are available on line. You look at 'em and tell me how the "average pilot" makes 175K. I won't come within 80K of that this year, and neither will the overwhelming majority of the pilots. The median salary might be 175K, but without more data from the company I can't be sure. Notice that in all the articles, they just throw that out there without any supporting data.

 

[klhoard]

FEDEX...WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY MUST BE DESTROYED OVERNIGHT.

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Dude, just sit down, shut up, hang on, and enjoy the ride. . .
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[RS6]

RS6, we have 4500 pilots, and the pay scales are available on line. You look at 'em and tell me how the "average pilot" makes 175K. I won't come within 80K of that this year, and neither will the overwhelming majority of the pilots. The median salary might be 175K, but without more data from the company I can't be sure. Notice that in all the articles, they just throw that out there without any supporting data.

I hear ya magnum, but the figures on the paper don't come close. You'd need to know how many pilots at what rate, etc..

But you can bet your behind that your MEC knows EXACTLY what the average salary was last year for the pilot group, as well as the median. In addition to the average and median total compensation.

That's what the braniacs in teh MEC finance office do. So if Mgt is spewing dodo, let's hear the MEC's version of the dodo ;-)

 

[Deuce130]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/business/article/0,1426,MCA_440_4231636,00.html
FedEx and pilots go into mediation
Negotiations over health care costs and job security have not been fruitful

By Jane Roberts
Contact
November 13, 2005

FedEx Corp. and its pilots have begun their latest round of talks, this time
under the eye of the National Mediation Board, the independent federal
agency that steps in when railroad and airline negotiations are at an
impasse.

While industry watchers have no idea how long the talks will last, they say
mediation is positive because it means both sides are still talking.

"They call these people mediators; they are really magicians trained to find
holes where no one else could," said Michael Boyd, aviation consultant at
The Boyd Group.

The mediator assigned to the FedEx case is John Livingood, whose most recent
assignment has been finding common ground between UPS and its pilots. The
sides have been in mediation since summer of 2004.

FedEx expects a long session because the pilots' union has already rejected
two offers without taking them to the membership for a vote.

"The NMB process is not short," said FedEx spokeswoman Kristin Krause. "It
takes months; it can take years. We hope their experienced hand can help the
process."

At the top of the agenda are health care and job security, sticking points
for the pilots since negotiations began 20 months ago.

Because FedEx is expanding dramatically, it is leasing planes and pilots to
cover the load, and paying the union penalties for the lost work.

To date, FedEx says it owes the union $2 million -- on top of the $300,000
it has already paid -- because it began leasing planes earlier this year and
will have to continue beyond the four-month lease period allowed in the
contract.

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Just out of curiosity, what does the union do with the money Fedex pays them for leasing non-company planes? Anyone know?

 

[sandman2122]

Divide it among the membership AND (for reasons I still don't agree with) non-member free loading scabs like FoxHunter.

 

[PurpleTail]

non-member free loading scabs like FoxHunter.

FoxHunter is not a FedEx pilot, he is FedEx flamebait.

 

[SWPA Pilot]

Divide it among the membership AND (for reasons I still don't agree with) non-member free loading scabs like FoxHunter

When do they divide it among the pilots? Not that it is as important as getting a contract.

Why do the non-members get any? Do those cheap jerks really need more money?

 

[FoxHunter]

FoxHunter is not a FedEx pilot, he is FedEx flamebait.

Sorry PurpleTail, no flamebait, just the truth. I guess it would be better if ALPA could force the management to be more like the folks found at UAL, DAL, NWA and others so they could throw money at us rather than investing in all those new wide bodies.

Why did you vote for ALPA in the first place? I tried to argue that it was weak, ineffective only interested in the revenue stream the FedEx pilots could provide. ALPA was/is a "Paper Tiger". I was countered by those that argued we needed ALPA because they had "deep pockets". The common expectation among the new ALPA members at FedEx was a 30% pay rise with the new contract. Where are we now? 7% or 8%. Just wait till you see the final TA sent to you. You'll be impressed. There will be a great explanation why things are not as expected. Just keep saying to yourself that your MEC speaks for you. It may help make you feel better.

 

[FoxHunter]

When do they divide it among the pilots? Not that it is as important as getting a contract.

Why do the non-members get any? Do those cheap jerks really need more money?

I was a member when that last check was sent out. I really needed that check for $70.98. Thanks ALPA.

 

[Echopapa]

Why does any FedEx UNION member care what the company publishes as our pay, accurate or not?

The union has absolutely no need for "public opinion". The public is not voting on our contract, only our membership votes. My neighbor is not going to vote for a contract or for a strike because he is not a FedEx pilot. So let him think whatever he wants.....If everyone thinks we are greedy, so what....the only thing that matters is what each individual UNION member believes.

I emphasized Union Member becuase Non-members (3%rs) have no right to vote on our contract because they have chosen to opt out of the collective barganing process. In doing so, they have eliminated the value of their opinion and preferences in the UNION-COMPANY negotiation. Perhaps each non-member could negotiate their own individual set of work rules and pay rates with management.

FedEx on the other hand is very sensative to public opinion. This is where we have a huge advantage. People pay a price premium to send packages by Fedex. They pay that premium based on the assurance that it will be delivered on time. If that assurance is erroded then so will our customer base.

The only reason FedEx posts pay numbers is to try to pressure union members, through neighbors and friends, into accepting a concessionary contract. Lets not let them. If we as a membership can recognize their intention, and insulate ourselves against these unimportant opinions, then we can immunized ourselves against that type of company negotiation tool.

I for one am proud of how much I EARN and am not ashamed to EARN more. My company is extremelly profitable and it is not unreasonable to expect that profitablity to be extended to the employees.

 

[Goose17]

excellent post Echopapa!

I'll drink to that.

Goose17

 

[klhoard]

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I'll have to second EchoPapa's post. I find it funny that FedEx writes letters for the Commercial Appeal whining about our pay when less than 25% of the pilots live in MEM, and an even smaller percentage of THAT 25% even read that rag. My neighbors all know I fly for FedEx, but don't have the balls to bring it up to my face because they know I'll just laugh at them. If every pilot that lives in MEM would do that, we'd never see articles in the paper.
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[needapayraise]

Why are you FedEx guys willing to leave so much money on the table?

 

[stonewall]

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I'll have to second EchoPapa's post. I find it funny that FedEx writes letters for the Commercial Appeal whining about our pay when less than 25% of the pilots live in MEM, and an even smaller percentage of THAT 25% even read that rag. My neighbors all know I fly for FedEx, but don't have the balls to bring it up to my face because they know I'll just laugh at them. If every pilot that lives in MEM would do that, we'd never see articles in the paper.
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They put it in the paper because there are about 40,000 Memphis FDX employees. Everyone's got a cousin, brother, sister, mother, nephew, son or whatever that works for FDX. They paint us as the few greedy ones who are going to jeopardize everyone's jobs. They try to make it as uncomfortable as possible for all the pilots that live in Memphis to go to the grocery store, church, t-ball or wherever and "face the neighbors." The company flat out lies about alot of things we're negotiating over, but that doesn't matter to the peeps in Memphis.

 

[needapayraise]

They put it in the paper because there are about 40,000 Memphis FDX employees. Everyone's got a cousin, brother, sister, mother, nephew, son or whatever that works for FDX. They paint us as the few greedy ones who are going to jeopardize everyone's jobs. They try to make it as uncomfortable as possible for all the pilots that live in Memphis to go to the grocery store, church, t-ball or wherever and "face the neighbors." The company flat out lies about alot of things we're negotiating over, but that doesn't matter to the peeps in Memphis.

Who cares what other employees think. You are not negotiating with them.

 

[FedEx1]

And let me tell you guys, we are "being painted" by Fedex management. I have heard more than once from ground workers that they have been told by their managers that "it is all the pilots' fault they no longer have their personal jumpseats." I managed to starighten out only 2 over the tens of thousands that hate us for this.

Another ramper told me that he knew I really made $250,000 a year. (Yeah, right...)

And I was chit-chatting with the DG guy on day, telling him I thought he did a good job, and worked hard, and it was too bad he doesn't get a more dough for the risk he takes for being the DG Specialist. (It is something really pathetic, like a few cents an hour extra.) He almost fell over, and started laughing. He said he never thought he hear from a pilot that they deserved to be paid better.

And yet another ramper refused to talk to both of us because he thought we were "sneaking our Southwest buddy onto the jumpseat." He was all checked out with the CASS system, but I guess this guy didn't know about offline jumpseats (since his are sadly gone.) I overheard him telling another guy that he wanted us to push out of the gate, so he was could write us up and get us fired. And it wasn't personal to us, just towards any pilot in general that happened to do something he thought was "not in the book." A call to the Duty Officer and GOC got this one straightened out. But it was an awful feeling.

I do care what the other working groups think. We have to work together. And getting along and respecting each other is not only more comfortable, it is SAFER.

 

[HoursHore]

Who cares what other employees think. You are not negotiating with them.

Just Go away already need a payraise/IHAVEAPENSION/OUT/Freght NAzi/commuter puke/frommage/rhoid/ psycix2/ Bored UPS pilot on reserve.

 

[needapayraise]

Just Go away already need a payraise/IHAVEAPENSION/OUT/Freght NAzi/commuter puke/frommage/rhoid/ psycix2/ Bored UPS pilot on reserve.

What's your problem? You FedEx pilots are definately not moneyhores.

 

[stonewall]

What's your problem? You FedEx pilots are definately not moneyhores.

Well, no dude, I'm not a moneyhore (sic). If all I cared about was money, I'd be a stockbroker. Or a rapper. I want a payraise, too, but I don't want to throw anyone under a bus for a few bucks. I'm not T.O.

And I never said we were negotiating with anyone other than mgmt. I just said, 'here's why the company is doing what it's doing.' Tool.

 

[stonewall]

To clarify, I'm not advocating a concessionary contract. I want what we deserve, which is a monster raise. I'm not saying we just take from the pilots and pay the rampers or anything like that. And, on second thought, I would probably throw some management-types under a bus (a VW one anyway) for a bigger pay raise.

 

[needapayraise]

To clarify, I'm not advocating a concessionary contract. I want what we deserve, which is a monster raise. I'm not saying we just take from the pilots and pay the rampers or anything like that. And, on second thought, I would probably throw some management-types under a bus (a VW one anyway) for a bigger pay raise.

Why is FedEx ALPA's opener so lame on pay? It's an opener for god's sake!

 

[FoxHunter]

Why is FedEx ALPA's opener so lame on pay? It's an opener for god's sake!

Adult supervision from Herndon. Interesting to see how your guys fare, beyond the rhetoric.

 

[klhoard]

And let me tell you guys, we are "being painted" by Fedex management. I have heard more than once from ground workers that they have been told by their managers that "it is all the pilots' fault they no longer have their personal jumpseats." I managed to starighten out only 2 over the tens of thousands that hate us for this.

Another ramper told me that he knew I really made $250,000 a year. (Yeah, right...)

And I was chit-chatting with the DG guy on day, telling him I thought he did a good job, and worked hard, and it was too bad he doesn't get a more dough for the risk he takes for being the DG Specialist. (It is something really pathetic, like a few cents an hour extra.) He almost fell over, and started laughing. He said he never thought he hear from a pilot that they deserved to be paid better.

And yet another ramper refused to talk to both of us because he thought we were "sneaking our Southwest buddy onto the jumpseat." He was all checked out with the CASS system, but I guess this guy didn't know about offline jumpseats (since his are sadly gone.) I overheard him telling another guy that he wanted us to push out of the gate, so he was could write us up and get us fired. And it wasn't personal to us, just towards any pilot in general that happened to do something he thought was "not in the book." A call to the Duty Officer and GOC got this one straightened out. But it was an awful feeling.

I do care what the other working groups think. We have to work together. And getting along and respecting each other is not only more comfortable, it is SAFER.

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Honestly, I could care less what the locals / other workers "say" or "think" about me. If they are being "downtrodden by the man" and slinging hash for a living, well; it sucks to be them. Life is not fair.
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If you are so concerned about what other people "think" about us, then submit a resolution to the MEC that we should cut everyone's pay to equal the highest paid ramper. They will all love us then. . . .
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[stonewall]

That's not what he was saying Kl.

 

[FedEx1]

Yeah, that wasn't quite what I was saying. It isn't that I "care" so much what other groups think of us pilots. It isn't like a junior high popularity contest.

It is important to have good working relationships amoung all workers, and it is important for them to have the real facts about us. I think it is attitudes that blow off the other groups, don't acknowledge their hard work and contributions, and don't try to understand their situation that are a detriment for all of us. (Not saying that is you though KL.)

I know it is hard to try smile and all when you are dealing with people that might have a chip on their shoulder. But trying to have a good relationship will only make my job better. Even if it means sometimes I have to try to turn a bad situation around, or be the bigger person. No, I shouldn't "have to", but it seems to work. Heck, I brought my extra Halloween candy to work, and gave it out to the guys loading the plane. Little something like that made the night a little better for all of us.

Just because we are paid more, or them less, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't deserve respect, acknowledgement, and a comfortable working environment, too. We can't do the work without them, either. I see them as our support, our resource, and the ones that enable us to do what we do.

 

[Falconjet]

A cold bottle of water for any of the guys/gals loading the jet and the ramp agent go a long way too. Especially in the summer.

FJ