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fedex jumpseats
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I talked with a FEDEX pilot riding on our jet last month. They said its up to managment, then its said they will open off ling JS when CASS is up at running.
I know alot of INDY drivers are going to stop allowing JS from FEDEX. One of our Captains told me that he understands its not the individual pilot at Fed, but its in the agreement about receip JS procedures.
I think once CASS is up and running and they dont allow JS, we should not honor them on our flight
I know alot of INDY drivers are going to stop allowing JS from FEDEX. One of our Captains told me that he understands its not the individual pilot at Fed, but its in the agreement about receip JS procedures.
I think once CASS is up and running and they dont allow JS, we should not honor them on our flight
dojetdriver
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C-5 MEM said:
Um, I seriously doubt this to be the case. My brothers sisters nephews girlfriend told me that is not our policy at INDY. I would have to say we have one of the best JS reps, he works his a$$ of to secure reciprical agreements with whoever he can.
Besides, we can't ride on AA or CAL international, why, becasue we can't reciprocate international. That in no way means that we deny CAL or AA pilots and ride when they come on our plane. We serve markets that they don't, does that mean we should deny them a ride because they can't reciprocate with us because they DON'T serve that market, NO.
Talk trash about managent, union, poilitics, whatever, but leave hearsay about a certain airline denying guys rides on their JS off the frigin board.
The last time I checked. The captain has the right to refuse any jump seater no matter what airline. For example. In the FOM we have an agreement for JET BLUE to jump seat. The captain can deny him/her the right to jump seat. I was refused one time by an United Airlines captain just because we broke ties with them.
The statement that I made was this. Fedex has been jump seating on us for some time now. We do not have jump seating with Fedex. ALPA has stated in the past that a receiprical agreement for jump seating must be met.
Recently Delta had agreement with a cargo company called Kitty Hawk.
A couple of years ago Kitty Hawk dropped its agreement for Delta to jump seat. Since there was not a receiprical agreement Delta stopped its jump seating with Kitty Hawk.
By the way. Do you work at Indy or does your girlfriends sister?
The statement that I made was this. Fedex has been jump seating on us for some time now. We do not have jump seating with Fedex. ALPA has stated in the past that a receiprical agreement for jump seating must be met.
Recently Delta had agreement with a cargo company called Kitty Hawk.
A couple of years ago Kitty Hawk dropped its agreement for Delta to jump seat. Since there was not a receiprical agreement Delta stopped its jump seating with Kitty Hawk.
By the way. Do you work at Indy or does your girlfriends sister?
dojetdriver
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dojetdriver
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I'm not trying to get into a pi$$ing contest with you.
You are right, the CA has final authority to deny anybody the JS on his airplane, and yes, I have been a victim of this from a specific carrier when we broke ties with them as well. And yes, he can be a total child and start a JS war between two carriers if he so chooses. But I gaurantee you this, if we INDY guys start denying FedEX guys a ride even though they are on our list and our JS rep hears about it, there will more that likley be a swift response from him.
I take it you are an Indy pilot, I am to. Maybe you remember the memo BR AND the UAL JS rep put together to preclude the unprofessional actions between both groups of denying a JS ride to a carrier who is on the list of approved carriers when I-Air was announced?
FedEx gets CASS, maybe we get CASS (if we are still around), who's to say they won't allow us on their JS because some CA(s) who denied their pilots screwed it up for us? It doesn't do anybody any good to deny a ride based soley on the fact they have an agreement with us and we don't with them. I'll bet that if any FedEx pilot had direct control over this issue, they would change it in a second as well as welcome us on their planes like we welcome them.
If ANY FedEx guy gets denied a ride on Indy, get the CA's name (if you can), flight number and date and contact your JS rep.
Dojetdriver, furlough coming in the springtime
You are right, the CA has final authority to deny anybody the JS on his airplane, and yes, I have been a victim of this from a specific carrier when we broke ties with them as well. And yes, he can be a total child and start a JS war between two carriers if he so chooses. But I gaurantee you this, if we INDY guys start denying FedEX guys a ride even though they are on our list and our JS rep hears about it, there will more that likley be a swift response from him.
I take it you are an Indy pilot, I am to. Maybe you remember the memo BR AND the UAL JS rep put together to preclude the unprofessional actions between both groups of denying a JS ride to a carrier who is on the list of approved carriers when I-Air was announced?
FedEx gets CASS, maybe we get CASS (if we are still around), who's to say they won't allow us on their JS because some CA(s) who denied their pilots screwed it up for us? It doesn't do anybody any good to deny a ride based soley on the fact they have an agreement with us and we don't with them. I'll bet that if any FedEx pilot had direct control over this issue, they would change it in a second as well as welcome us on their planes like we welcome them.
If ANY FedEx guy gets denied a ride on Indy, get the CA's name (if you can), flight number and date and contact your JS rep.
Dojetdriver, furlough coming in the springtime
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FNG_that's me
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C-5 MEM said:
C-5 MEM said:
I don't pretend to know much about the JS programs, but I do know that this is not the answer. Whatever happened to Do Unto Others...?
These are tough times; we need not make them tougher on ourselves. I'm sure the guys at Federal would be happy to open the JS up to others, doesn't really cost them anything and would probably save them lots of explanations.
If I denied a FedEx guy a JS just on spite I'd be worried that my name would end up on a list somewhere, like the hiring department...come to think of it, maybe they're already on the no-list there and that's why they want to deny the JS privilege. And the last thing I want is to be associated in any way with some jack-knuckle who acts this way.
Let's play nice, especially when it doesn't cost us anything out of our own pockets.
The fact that FedEx cannot reciprocate is not the pilots fault, the blame lays solely on Management. If I remember right, the FedEx pilots have had a grievance filed on this very matter for almost 3 years now. Denying FedEx pilots on the jumpseat will not solve anything. All it will do is make life harder for those trying to commute to work or get home. If FedEx pilots start getting denied, management won't care.
Also, as said above, they give most carriers a 75% interline discount on shipping. That is quite a cut rate, think about that next time you even think of denying a FedEx guy.
Keep the personal politics out of the jumpseat, if the guys have an agreement and they are cordial, give them a ride.
Also, as said above, they give most carriers a 75% interline discount on shipping. That is quite a cut rate, think about that next time you even think of denying a FedEx guy.
Keep the personal politics out of the jumpseat, if the guys have an agreement and they are cordial, give them a ride.
Rez O. Lewshun
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Denying the "Freight Dogs" the jumpseat is about as petty low as one can get. Lower than whale $hit. Spite is for 15 year old drama queens.
Here is a six step process to becomming a professional air line Capt.
Understanding that....
1. FedEx managment is using the jumpseat as a negotiating tool. If YOUR company was using something against you and your pilot group, wouldn't you enjoy and even crave the support of your fellow pilots, including pilots from other companies?
2. The "Dogs" maybe the only pilot group to "save" this pilot profession. They are the ones who are prospering right now and THEY will negotiate the leading contracts that we hope to use in 5-10 years.
3. The more flight crew members you have on board, the easier the emergency and/or evacuation goes and the better you look as Capt.
4. Only ATA members will get CASS initially. Fedex is a member. Indy Air and other similar mom and pop outfits are not. The tables will be turned... Now what?
5. The FedEx shipping discount has nothing to do with the jumpseat. The FedEx pilots cannot control an interline agreement that extends to all employees from both companies.
6. Instead of being a jumpseat Nazi ("No Jumpseat for YOU!") why don't you invite these gentlemen on board and talk with them for five minutes. (have your FO load the FMS?) Ask him what is going on at FedEx/UPS. Get educated on the issue. They may be tired as he1l and look worse than your father in law on jetlag, but they'll share some info. Then tell your FA to treat them like Kings cause they're your fellow pilots and its the right thing to do. (and if your FA says He1l no, then shame on you for not treating your FA right so she is happy to take care of your fellow pilots for you...)
As a Captain extending jumpseat privlidges it is better to be a positive influence on our profession than a tool. Believing that you are a one man army, vigilante types like Charles Bronsen, Schwarzenegger and Rambo all rolled up into one, so you can deny jumpseats to fellow pilots cause of a recipcricol definition is like two 8 year olds yelling at each other in the playground screaming "I said 'Screw you first'". Great, a Mexican stand off..... Now what!?
The Freight Dogs aren't giggling at each other thinking they are gaming the system at your expense. They know the deal. And many of them feel awkward asking for the jumpseat cause they just want to get home and see thier family, but they're gun shy of running into a babbling lunatic Capt that is going to give them a vitrol filled Dennis Miller rant about issues he himself doesn't understand.
Justifying the denial of a Freight Dog with a self righteous spin goes like this.... "So you're with FedEx. Well, I am denying you the j/s for your own good and the good of the profession. Cause if I don't deny you and other FedEx/UPS types then this whole jumpseat thing will never get fixed." WOW! Another airline pax Capt that is going to fix the problem single handedly.
The way jumpseats agreements get done is on the negotiating table, the dinner table and at the MEC offices. Not rogue Capts, exercising thier absolute power, thinking they are making a difference.
And you will be contributing to solving the issue, not convincing yourself that a pseudo-instantaneous-self-gratifying j/s denial is effecting change via a mis-informed short-term pain-for-long-term-gain modus operandi.
Instead why not be a positive influence on our profession. Keep the real vibes going. The good will.
We need as much fellowship as we can get these days.
Here is a six step process to becomming a professional air line Capt.
Understanding that....
1. FedEx managment is using the jumpseat as a negotiating tool. If YOUR company was using something against you and your pilot group, wouldn't you enjoy and even crave the support of your fellow pilots, including pilots from other companies?
2. The "Dogs" maybe the only pilot group to "save" this pilot profession. They are the ones who are prospering right now and THEY will negotiate the leading contracts that we hope to use in 5-10 years.
3. The more flight crew members you have on board, the easier the emergency and/or evacuation goes and the better you look as Capt.
4. Only ATA members will get CASS initially. Fedex is a member. Indy Air and other similar mom and pop outfits are not. The tables will be turned... Now what?
5. The FedEx shipping discount has nothing to do with the jumpseat. The FedEx pilots cannot control an interline agreement that extends to all employees from both companies.
6. Instead of being a jumpseat Nazi ("No Jumpseat for YOU!") why don't you invite these gentlemen on board and talk with them for five minutes. (have your FO load the FMS?) Ask him what is going on at FedEx/UPS. Get educated on the issue. They may be tired as he1l and look worse than your father in law on jetlag, but they'll share some info. Then tell your FA to treat them like Kings cause they're your fellow pilots and its the right thing to do. (and if your FA says He1l no, then shame on you for not treating your FA right so she is happy to take care of your fellow pilots for you...)
As a Captain extending jumpseat privlidges it is better to be a positive influence on our profession than a tool. Believing that you are a one man army, vigilante types like Charles Bronsen, Schwarzenegger and Rambo all rolled up into one, so you can deny jumpseats to fellow pilots cause of a recipcricol definition is like two 8 year olds yelling at each other in the playground screaming "I said 'Screw you first'". Great, a Mexican stand off..... Now what!?
The Freight Dogs aren't giggling at each other thinking they are gaming the system at your expense. They know the deal. And many of them feel awkward asking for the jumpseat cause they just want to get home and see thier family, but they're gun shy of running into a babbling lunatic Capt that is going to give them a vitrol filled Dennis Miller rant about issues he himself doesn't understand.
Justifying the denial of a Freight Dog with a self righteous spin goes like this.... "So you're with FedEx. Well, I am denying you the j/s for your own good and the good of the profession. Cause if I don't deny you and other FedEx/UPS types then this whole jumpseat thing will never get fixed." WOW! Another airline pax Capt that is going to fix the problem single handedly.
The way jumpseats agreements get done is on the negotiating table, the dinner table and at the MEC offices. Not rogue Capts, exercising thier absolute power, thinking they are making a difference.
And you will be contributing to solving the issue, not convincing yourself that a pseudo-instantaneous-self-gratifying j/s denial is effecting change via a mis-informed short-term pain-for-long-term-gain modus operandi.
Instead why not be a positive influence on our profession. Keep the real vibes going. The good will.
We need as much fellowship as we can get these days.
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Rez
All very noble. I truly believe it is your management driving the issue. That said, I'm left behind while you go. How much more emphasis would be placed on the issue if the JS was no longer available as opposed to the somewhat comfortable fallback of knowing it is available? Just a question.
"Indy Air and other similar mom and pop outfits"
Certainly a way to endear yourself and further your cause of continued JS privileges on said airlines.
All very noble. I truly believe it is your management driving the issue. That said, I'm left behind while you go. How much more emphasis would be placed on the issue if the JS was no longer available as opposed to the somewhat comfortable fallback of knowing it is available? Just a question.
"Indy Air and other similar mom and pop outfits"
Certainly a way to endear yourself and further your cause of continued JS privileges on said airlines.
Meat n the Seat
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Huck
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May I also point out that I deadhead 2 to 3 times a month on pax carriers.
Since I "deviate" and book my own flights, I always (when available) fly on the carrier I jumpseat the most on (Airlink). These days I know business is important.
None. They guys who commute care alot, the guys that don't (most of them) don't care so much.
Check into your airline history. There were periods in the 70's-90's when quite a few big carriers (NWA, DAL, etc...) didn't have jumpseat for YEARS. But the others carried them anyway. They knew how hard it was to get JS rights sometimes.
We are in talks. It takes time. JS will cost us money - and I'm glad to bargain for it. If we sign a contract without offline jumpseating, feel free to deny us 100%. Until then thanks for your fraternalism.
Since I "deviate" and book my own flights, I always (when available) fly on the carrier I jumpseat the most on (Airlink). These days I know business is important.
None. They guys who commute care alot, the guys that don't (most of them) don't care so much.
Check into your airline history. There were periods in the 70's-90's when quite a few big carriers (NWA, DAL, etc...) didn't have jumpseat for YEARS. But the others carried them anyway. They knew how hard it was to get JS rights sometimes.
We are in talks. It takes time. JS will cost us money - and I'm glad to bargain for it. If we sign a contract without offline jumpseating, feel free to deny us 100%. Until then thanks for your fraternalism.
Rez O. Lewshun
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REZ Disclaimer.....
I'm not a FX or freight dog pilot.....
Indy actually..... (that means I can call my airline Mom and Pop, Mickey Mouse...etc... And with our loads, I can take up to 50 Freight Dogs as jumpseaters..... C'mon boyz!!!)
If the FX pilots don't get the jumpseat back, again, what is the issue....?
I was disapointed the Delta pilots didn't get unlimited in their earth shattering concessions.... But that IS difficult in that, to get unlimited the DAL guys have to get FREE travel for ALL Delta employees. Gate agents going ape-$hit when off line pilots can ride for free on THIER airline....when they have to pay even $5. But I don't know the real deal. Any Deltoids out there got info...??
Back to Fred Smith..... If FX doesn't get the jumpseat, why? Just don't assume that the FX pilots decided to game the system....and take for granted the fact they can still jump on us....
I just don't turn away a fellow pilot, I can always use another crew member, plus I let issues get solved at the leadership level....
It is not about me me me.
"What is in it for me? Can I jumpseat on you? No! Ok then you can't j/s with me. Sorry...Cya later Freight doggie.... bye bye"
C'mon guys we are bigger than this... Better than this....
Once again, grey. Not black and white. Certianly not a one man army issue.
Russ said:
I'm not a FX or freight dog pilot.....
Indy actually.....
(that means I can call my airline Mom and Pop, Mickey Mouse...etc... And with our loads, I can take up to 50 Freight Dogs as jumpseaters..... C'mon boyz!!!)If the FX pilots don't get the jumpseat back, again, what is the issue....?
I was disapointed the Delta pilots didn't get unlimited in their earth shattering concessions.... But that IS difficult in that, to get unlimited the DAL guys have to get FREE travel for ALL Delta employees. Gate agents going ape-$hit when off line pilots can ride for free on THIER airline....when they have to pay even $5. But I don't know the real deal. Any Deltoids out there got info...??
Back to Fred Smith..... If FX doesn't get the jumpseat, why? Just don't assume that the FX pilots decided to game the system....and take for granted the fact they can still jump on us....
I just don't turn away a fellow pilot, I can always use another crew member, plus I let issues get solved at the leadership level....
It is not about me me me.
"What is in it for me? Can I jumpseat on you? No! Ok then you can't j/s with me. Sorry...Cya later Freight doggie.... bye bye"
C'mon guys we are bigger than this... Better than this....
Once again, grey. Not black and white. Certianly not a one man army issue.
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I guess I fail to get it. I ask for JS privileges to be reciprocated and I'm the bad guy. You need not worry, my carrier has unlimited JS privileges including you box types. As long as the policy is to carry you despite no recip agreement then you are welcome. The individual JS will never know how I feel about this one way affair, a smile and a handshake will be all they see.
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