FedEx hopefuls, please read

[Shisha]

My fellow pilots,
I feel a stong obligation to write about my experience in interviewing with FedEx recently. I'm sorry to say that I came up short on the sim eval. I've been reading these boards for literally years and have been too humbled to post in the past. MANY good guys out there have given me inspiration beyond belief and I sincerely appreciate those folks who have given us wannabees insight and guidance. The info that follows is intended to try to put more perspective into the candidate that is lucky enough to get the call for FedEx.
After getting the call from Kim in human resources at FedEx, I scheduled to get some Airbus time. I wanted to be as prepared as possible for the interview. Honestly, I've heard about other folks in the past who have failed the simulator portion and ...somehow I couldn't understand how one could fail if they really tried hard. Well, let me tell you, it can happen. In 25 minutes, your dream job could be lost. What would I do differently? Let me tell you...
First, regardless of your flying experience you need to walk out of that simulator sweating. Seriously. FedEx has had some accidents recently which has put them (especially the training dept) under scrutiny. While I have always heard and read to be humble and positive about any interview experience, I've got to say that if you interview at FedEx for the simulator, you MUST walk out of the simulator with your head hung lower than when you entered and THANK the interviewer for their time and EXPRESS that while you had made some mistakes during the profile, but that you VERY MUCH want to earn a position with the company and join the team.
My background was P-3s in the fleet and currently fly King Airs in the reserves. Folks who know me know that I feel lucky just to know folks who fly for the big boys let alone get the dream shot. I attribute my failure to two things: First, when I was off on airspeed (like slowing from a/s A to a/s B), I gradually reduced the power and stated out loud "fast and correcting." Well, apparently it's a bigger hit to hold a faster a/s than to be 10kts fast and aggressively correct to profile...i.e. Better to do the following: 5kts fast, pwr to idle, 2kts slow, pwr back up, 2kts fast, pwr off, etc. vs. the following: 5kts fast, gradually pull power, 4kts fast, a little more power off, holding 4kts off, little more power off, etc. It seems to be viewed better to be very aggressive and constantly strive for perfection. To hold 20ft or even 10ft off alt. is a bigger hit than to be 50ft off and aggessively correct back to zero ft off. I hope that makes sense. Second, when I walked out, I thanked the instructor for his time, but I honestly thought I had done well. BIG MISTAKE (to show anything but humbleness as you shake their hand)! I'm a turboprop guy and really don't have any "cockiness." But I really think I could have made the wrong impression on the instructor by not walking out sweating and with my head hung low.
Also, I don't care if you flew C-172s (where you may be possibly +/-100ft in the sim) or were an Airbus captain (where you're possilby +/-10ft in the sim), all candidates should walk out of the sim sweating the same amount. You see, sweating and having your head hung lower is very telling to the instructor...i.e. this guy is not a hot shot and has been humbled today and is probably going to be a good guy to train.
I write the above for no other reason but to hopefully help any others that may get the opportunity in the future for FedEx.
There is a post a few days ago by Falconjet...the name of the post is "January FEDEX interview". Falconjet's post has some very good insight. Please read his post.
Lastly, I sincerely appreciate posts from Huck, Falconjet, AlbieF15 and others. You guys are an inspiration to us all. I got a letter today that says I have to wait for one year till I can apply again...I'll be back. I fortunately have another opportunity with a great airline coming up. Take care and please no responses. Not looking for anything like that, just trying to "pay it forward."

 

[AlbieF15]

Shisha,

Sorry to hear of your setback, but you will be back. Good luck at carrier X! You aren't the first guy to bust here, won't be the last. Dust yourself off and try again!

For the rest of you..."sim prep" ain't "sim prep". Don't just grab a phone book and buy sim time--do a bit of research on repuation and success rates. My group ain't the only gig in the business, but at least make a few calls. My take is the -10 is harder to fly, and the local guys in MEM know how to teach and evaluate FDX profiles. FDX has been ping ponging between the A300 and the DC 10 lately, but the quality of instruction is a lot more important than the type of sim. You may or may not find such results at other places around the country. At the very least...ask some questions first.


Good luck everyone.

 

[mmmdonut]

I don't know much, but I know that sometimes things happen for a reason...and usually everything works out for the best. Good luck to you.

 

[TonyC]

Shisha,


First, my condolences on the sim eval. I can't imagine how disappointing it must have been to NOT proceed to day 2 of the interview. So much depends on that short time in the box, and I'm sure you'll be reflying it in your mind for months to come.

If it's any consolation, I highly doubt that anything you said or did once the sim went on freeze had any effect on your score. I don't have any inside information, no score sheet, no rules of engagement, but I have had the opportunity to casually discuss the process with one of our pilots that conducts the sim evals. They are VERY objective, very cut and dried. Your score was set before the motion settled.

I believe your advice about agressive corrections is spot on. Accepting 5 knots fast with no correction is a deviation, period. Vigorously fight for perfection.

One remark that the above-mentioned pilot made that struck me was that they pride themselves in their objective scoring. He said that different evaluators looking at the same candidate will score within points of each other. They are confident that they're giving a fair evaluation.


All of the above is just my opinion - - educated speculation.


Good luck next year!

 

[Mr Zog]

Shisha,

Not that it means anything now, but I do know someone who had the same thing happen to him. He is an excellent pilot, who just had a bad 30 minutes. He got on with another carrier and re-interviewed at FedEx with success. He was hired and is at FedEx now. It can happen to anyone. Especially in a sim.

 

[Shisha]

Thanks guys

I appreciate your posts.

Albie's post is an important one. It's not just what type of sim you get prior to the interview, but it's the quality of instruction, reputation and success rates. For me, I had gotten the time in the A300 (flew the A310 for the interview). The gentleman I flew it with had been recommended by a buddy of mine who also did it with him two weeks prior. Also, this gentleman had 5 FedEx candidates within the previous month or so; 2 were just the week prior. All were successful. ...would recommend Albie's friend in Memphis if nothing else to go over the "strive for perfection" part of the evaluation during the sim practice. This guy has a proven track record (something like 70 for 70). I'm an Albie client for the interview portion, but was pressed during the T-day holiday week to get some sim time.

During the practice sim I flew and evaluated the FedEx profile twice...at the interview I felt like I flew it better during the interview than during practice. And what's even crazier, I felt calm and composed during the interview. That's why I say above that it may be better to show some sweat. Strive for perfection! Don't settle for anything off.

I believe TonyC's info is right on too. And I have to believe that the evaluators are objective.

Thanks Mr. Zog, maybe I can be one of those guys too. I'm sure going to try.

Again, just trying to help a brother out and add some perspective to an all important interview. Good luck.

 

[Flyoa1]

Shisha -

Don't sweat the small stuff. Same thing happened to me during ATA's last hiring spree. Got all geeked up for the interview and flew like crap in the sim. I was heartbroken. Now, I'm glad I boobed it up!! Like the previous post said...all things happen for a reason!

 

[freightdogfred]

Well, I think I'll prepare for my upcoming eval by buying a six-pack and watching "Top Gun" again.....

 

[2Aoff1Bon]

Shisha,

I first applied with FedEx in late '96 and was interviewed in mid-'97. I passed the sim check, but was NOT hired. Why, I don't know. The next year I applied and was not even interviewed. I thought it was over at that point. 2 years later I got a chance to apply for a professional instructor position. Same sim check profile, same interview process except this time I got hired and finally made it to the line this year. So, it ultimately took me 8 years to get here. The point? As devastating as what you are experiencing now is (and I do know how you are feeling), don't quit!! There was good advice in the previous posts. Hang in there and keep plugging.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Understatement

Honestly, I've heard about other folks in the past who have failed the simulator portion and ...somehow I couldn't understand how one could fail if they really tried hard. Well, let me tell you, it can happen. In 25 minutes, your dream job could be lost.

I thought the exact same thing, and I walked out of my sim check with the same feeling.



For you fast jet drivers, flying heavies is completely different. Don't stroll into the sim thinking you can handle it...you may lose that dream job.

 

[blzr]

That BLOWS! Why would acting humble and dejected be appreciated more that being upbeat and enthusiastic (without swaggering and being cocky). And why should you be turned down, sounds like you had a good ride, by a sim instructor with a GOD complex?

I REALLY want to get on with Fed-EX in the future and have flown with several pilots from there who tell me it's the best place to work. Seems to me that they would want people that were upbeat and excited to be there.

Hopefully that is the exception rather than the rule. We can all have a bad day in the sim, especially in an interview situation. seems to me that if you were with in ATP standards that you would pass the checkride since you are flying an aircraft that you probably have not trained in before.

 

[TonyC]

And why should you be turned down, sounds like you had a good ride, by a sim instructor with a GOD complex?

I can assure you there was no God complex. These guys are among the most humble, most professional pilots I have ever known. I'll bet my next paycheck that the evaluation was completely objective, and the mannerisms of the applicant after the event had NO BEARING whatsoever on the outcome.

seems to me that if you were with in ATP standards that you would pass the checkride since you are flying an aircraft that you probably have not trained in before.

And that's why you should reread the above posts should you be afforded the opportunity to interview. It's NOT an ATP ride. It's NOT OKAY to remain level 40 feet low, even if that's within the limits. What's more important is recognizing even the little errors and making an effort to correct.

Don't waste brain cells discussing the wisdom or fairness of the system. The system is the system, and they get to decide how they want to run their system. Deal with it, or be dealt with.

 

[blzr]

That's what I was hoping to hear reguarding the God complex thing. The ATP standards are just that, standards. I try to make every checkride perfect, but no matter how good you are there are always small deviations. As pilots, most of us try to be right on airspeed and altitude, but in the real world things are not always perfect.

My guess is that if Fed-EX thinks you are the man/woman for the job you will get hired, unless you totally bungle the sim or interview. I would imagine that everyone that has ever taken a sim ride messed something up at one point or another. Most overcome those mistakes and end up having an above average ride.

I guess it boils down to go in, be yourself, give it your best shot and let the chips fall where they may. AM I far off base here?

 

[TonyC]

I guess it boils down to go in, be yourself, give it your best shot and let the chips fall where they may. AM I far off base here?

Can't argue with THAT advice!

 

[AA717driver]

Shisha--Sounds like you did a hell of a job in the sim. You just flew like you would in the real world. Jacking the throttle and jamming it down because you are 50' off your altitude may work well for a sim jockey but if I were evaluating and someone flew like that, the door wouldn't be hitting them in the a$$!

You are obviously a conscientious pilot. JB, AirTran or SW would be lucky to have you. Just wait for the next bus and keep applying for FEX.TC

 

[UALjan15]

It seems like if they're really going to simulate the FedEx experience, they should make you stay up all night eating junk food and coffee, and then make you shoot an approach to mins at dawn's first light.Shisha--sorry about your experience....perseverance will pay in the end.

 

[AlbieF15]

BLZ,

You are wrong. Shisha never even got to meet anyone but the sim evaluator. You don't interview, then get a sim. You get a SIM SCREEN, then interview the next day. Your personality (unless you are just a complete jerk to others around you) doesn't really get much a chance to be evaluated. You have to run the sim guantlet before anyone gets to even "size you up" as a person...

"Let the chips fall where they may..." YGTBSM. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. I don't plan to be at a merge in an F-15, on a cat III approach in a 727, or in a bank office applying for a business loan "letting the chips fall where they may" or "hoping it will all work out..." Instead, I plan on busting my a$$ to know my procedures cold, have a good handle on my capabilities and limitiations, and already having visualized and mentally rehearsed a successful outcome. I'm going to know as much about what I am expected to do in a dynamic situation as I can, and then I am going to trust my (hopefully) honed hands and instincts to handle the 5% factor of stuff I did not plan for.

"Letting the chips fall where they may" is what you do AFTER you have done everything to succeed. Anything less is settling for mediocrity.

Just a fighter pilot...and I may be wrong. But I don't think so....

 

[backfill]

Nice

Great post. I am so sorry things did not work out for you at FedEx. I'm sure, with your positive attitude, you will have a wonderful career.

Good luck.

BF

 

[Falconjet]

Shisha: Sorry to hear about your experience in the sim and thanks for your kind words. I also thank you for taking the time to tell your story to the rest of us on this board. I have been trying to sound the alarm about the sim ride being somewhat tougher than perhaps it used to be (I can't say for sure, but from what I've seen happening and knowing a couple of guys who didn't make it through, who I know can fly) and encouraging folks to do some serious sim prep prior to their eval. This is more ammo for that argument.

I also agree with the folks saying that you seem to have a great attitude and I wish you well with your other opportunities. I also hope that you aren't soured by the experience and will keep pursuing the Purple and Orange dream.

The only thing I slightly disagree with on the posts with some possible critiques is the corrections for when off an altitude or airspeed. Constant corrections are certainly required, but I'm not sure that "aggressive" corrections are necessarily what you want to use. Sometimes making "aggressive" adjustments to the power in the sim of wing-engine mounted aircraft (such as the Airbus and DC-10) will do wild things to your nose attitude that you might have a hard time staying ahead of.

Chasing the nose because of wild fluctuations due to large,"aggressive" power changes may in fact lead the evaluator to surmise that you are behind the jet and just chasing it across the sky. I would make continual, positive changes to the power to keep the trends going in the desired direction. Being overly "aggressive" with the power could lead to more harm than good. That is a fine line to tread for sure.

The sim profile might put more emphasis on the rate of climb or descent than you are used to. Usually I would think that the attitude indicator, airspeed and then the HSI would be your primary scan instruments while doing manuevers. I wouldn't normally consider the VSI a primary scan item except maybe on a GCA (military flashback). This is a good reason, I feel, to do some professional sim prep before the interview. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary 3 years ago, but with the number of folks not passing lately I would think it is now almost a requirement. I don't think I'd take what could be my one shot at a major without stacking the odds as much in my favor as I could.

Again, I am sorry for your experience and I thank you for sharing it with the board. I don't mean to contradict any of the advice that has been given, but just wanted to add some more food for thought for those heading to Graceland for the eim eval and interview.

Best of luck to you Shisha and those in the app process as well.

FJ

 

[blzr]

Hey Albie;

How many guys would intentionally show up and not know their buttt from a hole in the ground? How many guys that apply to Fed-EX and get the chance to take the sim ride don't know how to fly any approach anywhere catIII or vfr? My point was basically what you said in your last post. Know your stuff cold, prepare, prepare, and then prepare some more, then go in and do the best you can and let the chips fall where they may.

If anyone would go to a sim ride for Fed-EX or ANY airline and not be prepared gets what they get. SHISHA, I am not saying that about you. I would bet that you were as prepared, if not more so that any other pilot that goes through the process.

 

[sean67]

SHISHA
Sorry about you experience as well. I plan on heeding to your advice. Good kuck to all in January.sean

 

[hoya saxa]

Fed-EX ...Fed-EX

I prefer "fEd==eX"

 

[sandman2122]

Anyone can have a bad day - in our case; a bad sim check, flight or ground eval. I'd still like to meet the pilot who thinks they're invulnerable to busting any evaluation, flight or ground.

Doesn't matter what your background might be, everyone is prone to screwing up! From Top Gun/Red Flag AF types, to corporate guys to lowly AF global heavy airlift guys (that's me!), it simply depends on how bad's the mistake and if there's someone who caught it (ATC or a Line Check Airman)......

Don't lose sleep over it or waste time "chair-flying"....

 

[Shisha]

It was a fair evaluation

They do brief you prior that the eval is NOT ATP standards...they're tighter. I agree with TonyC that it is objective. And I agree with Albie that luck is where preparation meets opportunity. For those who question how the eval is done, I would humbly submit please don't question the system but rather try to understand and appreciate their system to maximize success. Falconjet makes a great point...don't jack the power all around because you could end up chasing the jet. I mentioned "aggressively correct to profile" when a better phrase is probably "be prompt and deliberate." I feel like I'm rambling on this issue, but it's important...it's important to sean67 and others who are booking tickets for upcoming interviews. One final thought. It goes something like this...you're on alt, heading but your a/s is 4-5kts fast. If he doesn't see you making a redux in power within 5 or so seconds...that's a pretty major hit. It could say that you're "satisfied" with that a/s after he notices that you've noticed your a/s and still haven't made a correction. If you're not willing to work hard then, what says you're willing to work hard shooting an appch at 4am in bad weather. Just a thought. Please listen to Albie, TonyC, Falconjet and others...I do and always will. Seek to understand the process and get the prep w/ Albie. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

What w/confession being good for the sould and all..

"My name is 1-T-R, and I'm a Fedex sim flunkie"...now altogether: "Hi, 1-T-R!"

Now that we got through that, I feel like I'm among friends and can bear my soul. I have 4500+ MEJ, CRM director background, and flew as a military flight instructor with FalconJet (looking at FalconJets avatar, you don't need to be Jim Rockford to figure out my specific background). Several months back I headed to MEM to show them boys in purple that I was the right guy for the job.

Spent $600 practicing the profile in an Airbus sim ('cause all the AF gouge said that's what we'd be in. note: don't trust the AF, my sim was in the DC10) and several flights practicing in another sim. Paid Albie the best $XXX dollars I've ever spent for interview prep. Checked into hotel vice staying at one of the houses of one of my many FDX buds because I wanted to get/keep my "game face" on. I WAS ready.

Fast forward to two hours after my sim (that I knew had gone rough). "Mr 1TR, bad news, it didnt' go well today" Next began what I call my 6 hour "ride of shame" back to my home base (I had rented a car to reduce the risk of my 10 year old car breaking down enroute MEM). All that prep was good...glad I did it...but EVERYONE has a bad day.

What is the same today as it was before my sim ride?
-My kids still love when I give them rasberries on their bellies
-My wife still enjoys an occasional game of "look what I found"
-I'm still a good pilot, who over the years stopped alot of bad guys and found alot of good guys
-Fedex is still an awesome company both from the employee perspective (I imagine, and hope one day to experience) and certainly from the customer perspective
-Fedex training guys are best in world
-Life goes on...and there IS a master plan

I'll be back.....

P.S. Was everyone else as iritated by FalconJets instructional methods verbiage on A/S, altitude, VSI? Believe me, I worked with him for two years in a Training/Standards branch...he drove us all to drink. (kidding of course Ricardo)

 

[GasPasser]

Thank you all for the info/advice/cautions! I'm hoping to be called to MEM sometime in '05. Sounds like I have a lot more preparing to do than I first imagined!

 

[zonker]

I understand the idea of not accepting 5/10 knots or 50/100 feet, but if FedEx is advocating the idea of prospective pilots to constantly jockey the the throttles/yoke in the pursuit of perfection...obviously that isn't good pilot technique, either.

Reminds me of the time when United decided that their prospective pilots would fly no less than perfect in the sim. And if they didn't, they we're booted.

Everyone is human, and when you make a mistake, you say so and correct it.

Also. Maybe I read the initial post wrong. But if personalities are not considered in the FedEx sim eval, I think that's a mistake. After all, you're planning to fly with these people, correct?

 

[TonyC]

... But if personalities are not considered in the FedEx sim eval, I think that's a mistake.

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

 

[Whale Rider]

Shisha,

Keep the Faith Buddy! I've been there. This is America and you will get another shot.

 

[zonker]

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

It's a given that they pass the urine test. They wouldn't walk through the door if they couldn't.

We are professionals, aren't we?

The sim/testing phase is a small part of it. Being a pilot is a personality test as well as a demonstration of airmanship. Many irritating people can jerk the controls. Someone you can spend time with for 4 days is pretty high in my book.

Hiring someone who will be a good employee and friendly co-worker is the real test.