JerkyHerky
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- Mar 20, 2002
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Fed Ex; not so good news
- Thread starter dixieflyer
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AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
Fr8doggie,
Your points to Fox3 were valid, but your lack of tact and hostility is exactly why you had about 30% of your second officers pony up the $$ to support the captains earlier this year.
VLT, Drft, working over 60...all have some very serious advantages. Keeping our company efficient and lean also (hopefully) keeps ALL of us on the payroll instead of on the street. There is also something nice about having no "max" hours can can work--so if you need some extra money here and there to fix a house project or send a kid off to school there aren't any artificial rules that say you cannot. It has an "American work ethic" feel to it that makes a lot of sense at times. It also gives the crew force some leverage should we collectively decide to NOT pick up any trips should the need arise.
However, a little more "hey, look at it this way...you'll be a captain too one day" and a lot less "hey new guy...you should be greatful to have my crumbs" goes a long way. We all joined FDX knowing we'd hopefully have a great career and a reasonalbe advancement. In the long term, I'm sure we all will....but some it IS disheartening at times when a guy hired 3-6 months in front of you gets his widebody FO slot after 1 year with the company, and it looks like with current hiring/attrition you might not get the chance for 3-5 years. Now...we aren't kids here...we know timing is king in the airline game and that's the way things work sometimes. But the condescending tone doesn't do much to built "unity" as we all try to work together towards 2004.
Three facts about Fox3 you need to know. First...I KNOW for a fact he was one of the 30% who opened the checkbook to help out the previously mentioned captains. Second...he had a JetBlue offer but declined it. Finally...he spent over 20 years in a wide range of jets serving his country, and didn't get on the property until his 40s. He knew the rules, and made his own choices, but unlike some of the boy wonder 25 year old guys who've been acruing seniority all these years, he was off serving his country keeping us safe so we could HAVE an airline industry while others were "paying their dues" as S/Os and F/Os. I don't expect anyone to do any special favors for those guys or inflate their seniority number, but just a tad bit of respect and keeping the tone toward intelligent discussions vice the hostility will go a long way towards making us a more unified crew force.
Your points to Fox3 were valid, but your lack of tact and hostility is exactly why you had about 30% of your second officers pony up the $$ to support the captains earlier this year.
VLT, Drft, working over 60...all have some very serious advantages. Keeping our company efficient and lean also (hopefully) keeps ALL of us on the payroll instead of on the street. There is also something nice about having no "max" hours can can work--so if you need some extra money here and there to fix a house project or send a kid off to school there aren't any artificial rules that say you cannot. It has an "American work ethic" feel to it that makes a lot of sense at times. It also gives the crew force some leverage should we collectively decide to NOT pick up any trips should the need arise.
However, a little more "hey, look at it this way...you'll be a captain too one day" and a lot less "hey new guy...you should be greatful to have my crumbs" goes a long way. We all joined FDX knowing we'd hopefully have a great career and a reasonalbe advancement. In the long term, I'm sure we all will....but some it IS disheartening at times when a guy hired 3-6 months in front of you gets his widebody FO slot after 1 year with the company, and it looks like with current hiring/attrition you might not get the chance for 3-5 years. Now...we aren't kids here...we know timing is king in the airline game and that's the way things work sometimes. But the condescending tone doesn't do much to built "unity" as we all try to work together towards 2004.
Three facts about Fox3 you need to know. First...I KNOW for a fact he was one of the 30% who opened the checkbook to help out the previously mentioned captains. Second...he had a JetBlue offer but declined it. Finally...he spent over 20 years in a wide range of jets serving his country, and didn't get on the property until his 40s. He knew the rules, and made his own choices, but unlike some of the boy wonder 25 year old guys who've been acruing seniority all these years, he was off serving his country keeping us safe so we could HAVE an airline industry while others were "paying their dues" as S/Os and F/Os. I don't expect anyone to do any special favors for those guys or inflate their seniority number, but just a tad bit of respect and keeping the tone toward intelligent discussions vice the hostility will go a long way towards making us a more unified crew force.
fr8doggie
Canis Onus
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Posts
- 380
Re: Retiring? No Way
ALBIE15:
Here's what FOX3 wrote:
the general consensus seems to be that "no way am I working past 60" yet I'll bet that at least the top 80 guys in the back of the -10 are over the age of 60, and there will be 20 more by the end of the summer. Then they gloat about how they're going to take "your" line, these are more than likely the same guys that sell back vacation, fly draft and volunteer and keep you guys in the pool. The union could stop this crap by making these guys go to the bottom of the list for the seat that they are moving to. After all, most are DISPLACED CAPTAINS and need to move on.
So who started the vitriol? I very seriously doubt age 60+ guys are gloating that they took FOX3's line.
I guess the fighter jocks can whine all they want to but when I get sick of hearing it I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut. Forget it. This is an anonymous BB where people hide behind handles. What I posted was extremely mild compared to some of the things I've read here.
You guys have very thin skins.
ALBIE15:
Here's what FOX3 wrote:
the general consensus seems to be that "no way am I working past 60" yet I'll bet that at least the top 80 guys in the back of the -10 are over the age of 60, and there will be 20 more by the end of the summer. Then they gloat about how they're going to take "your" line, these are more than likely the same guys that sell back vacation, fly draft and volunteer and keep you guys in the pool. The union could stop this crap by making these guys go to the bottom of the list for the seat that they are moving to. After all, most are DISPLACED CAPTAINS and need to move on.
So who started the vitriol? I very seriously doubt age 60+ guys are gloating that they took FOX3's line.
I guess the fighter jocks can whine all they want to but when I get sick of hearing it I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut. Forget it. This is an anonymous BB where people hide behind handles. What I posted was extremely mild compared to some of the things I've read here.
You guys have very thin skins.
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 2,308
Re: Uh Oh...
LOL. "Money is tight" - This from a company that made $710 Million in '02 after one time charges , saw a 15% gross operating margin, and who's stock price is 25% higher than it ever was prior to September 11th. I realize that fiscal discipline contributed to those results, but honestly. The purple kool aid get's a little thick sometimes. There's a lot of handlers convinced that the company barely has it's head above water. There is zero threat of unionization among the hourly types, if it makes anybody feel better. But during the '04 negotiations there will be zero sympathy towards the pilots, for the same reasons.
PurpleTail said:
LOL. "Money is tight" - This from a company that made $710 Million in '02 after one time charges , saw a 15% gross operating margin, and who's stock price is 25% higher than it ever was prior to September 11th. I realize that fiscal discipline contributed to those results, but honestly. The purple kool aid get's a little thick sometimes. There's a lot of handlers convinced that the company barely has it's head above water. There is zero threat of unionization among the hourly types, if it makes anybody feel better. But during the '04 negotiations there will be zero sympathy towards the pilots, for the same reasons.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
I read in Flight INTL that Fedex was starting to look for replacements for the 120 727s---and that used 737-300s and 757s may do the trick. But, the article also stated that the recent buy of ATR-42's may fill in for unprofitable 727 routes, and they may even look at ATR-72's with even more room for cargo. Those larger ATRs might easily fill in for close regional flights around MEM or OAK, or DFW etc. Man, even Fedex might have scope problems----what is this world coming to? Atleast it seems that Fedex may expand INTL routes, which might make up the difference. But, the Fedex guys will hear the same thing we hear at the Majors---"It's cheaper to find crews to fly ATR-72's than the 3 man crews for the 727....."
Bye Bye--General Lee
Bye Bye--General Lee
AA sells 727's to FedEx
AA sells DC10's to FedEx
AA sells MD11's to FedEx
Rumor has it that AA has 25 P&W powered 757's that don't seem to match all the other ones.
Rumor has it that some FedEx maint folks have been visiting Tulsa Tech to inquire into some A300's.
AA eliminates on fleet type and one sub fleet. FedEx get's 25 common cockpit 757's along with attitional A300's.
Things that make you go Hummmmmmmmm.
AA sells DC10's to FedEx
AA sells MD11's to FedEx
Rumor has it that AA has 25 P&W powered 757's that don't seem to match all the other ones.
Rumor has it that some FedEx maint folks have been visiting Tulsa Tech to inquire into some A300's.
AA eliminates on fleet type and one sub fleet. FedEx get's 25 common cockpit 757's along with attitional A300's.
Things that make you go Hummmmmmmmm.
Goose17
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 528
AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
Fr8doggie,
If I shot your way with a shotgun blast when a popgun was warranted, I apologize. I've just heard a lot of "you guys just don't understand" directed at the bottom 15% of the crew force, from other guys, and maybe my response to you was aimed more at them and less at you.
I understand a 50 year old when hired ex-Eastern or ex-Braniif guy appreciates the panel job. I also know its a great deal for that military retiree who shows up at 43-45 on the property.
There are likely as many stories as there are over 60 guys out there....
I just wish all of us would use a slightly more constructive tone at times. Fox 3 was frustrated and venting...perhaps even out of bounds. Like a lot of us, he's imagining moving up and it just doesn't seem to be happening like it was 2 years ago-such is the curse of hiring sine waves. However, I think the point everyone is making is the retirement charts don't mean much right now at FDX if you are stuck on the panel, as quite a few folks come back and just end up bumping you down.
If the speculation on more A300s or 757s is right, it bodes well for young guys here, but not well for the over 60 crowd, poolies, or wannabes. However, I'll defer to Fr8, Profile, and guys who've been here a lot longer to speculate about what FDX is likewhen jets are added or removed from the fleet, as I have seen neither in my short time here.
If I shot your way with a shotgun blast when a popgun was warranted, I apologize. I've just heard a lot of "you guys just don't understand" directed at the bottom 15% of the crew force, from other guys, and maybe my response to you was aimed more at them and less at you.
I understand a 50 year old when hired ex-Eastern or ex-Braniif guy appreciates the panel job. I also know its a great deal for that military retiree who shows up at 43-45 on the property.
There are likely as many stories as there are over 60 guys out there....
I just wish all of us would use a slightly more constructive tone at times. Fox 3 was frustrated and venting...perhaps even out of bounds. Like a lot of us, he's imagining moving up and it just doesn't seem to be happening like it was 2 years ago-such is the curse of hiring sine waves. However, I think the point everyone is making is the retirement charts don't mean much right now at FDX if you are stuck on the panel, as quite a few folks come back and just end up bumping you down.
If the speculation on more A300s or 757s is right, it bodes well for young guys here, but not well for the over 60 crowd, poolies, or wannabes. However, I'll defer to Fr8, Profile, and guys who've been here a lot longer to speculate about what FDX is likewhen jets are added or removed from the fleet, as I have seen neither in my short time here.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Goose17,
Well, I think that was tongue and cheek, but we do carry more passengers (along with DCI) than any other carrier in the world. Now, if we could turn that into major profits again, then I will be a lot happier. We also have the largest hub airport (ATL) and the most RJs (I guess that is good?)---and we also have a $1 billion debt payment due in 2005 (which may have just changed---I think they are going to pay half of that now and re-finance the rest for 2007-2008). I suppose you are trying to get on with Fedex? I wish you luck---it seems like a great carrier with a good mix of day and night flying. The ATR statement I made originated in the Flight INTL mag--and I thought it was interesting. If you think about it, the ATR72 might be able to carry close to the same amount of cargo as a 727-100 for short stage lengths. That right there is something the FEDEX management is probably looking at. But, G4G5 stated that AA might be selling Fedex a bunch of 757's (the best plane ever made in my opinion--easy to fly) and A300's--which would be good for you. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Well, I think that was tongue and cheek, but we do carry more passengers (along with DCI) than any other carrier in the world. Now, if we could turn that into major profits again, then I will be a lot happier. We also have the largest hub airport (ATL) and the most RJs (I guess that is good?)---and we also have a $1 billion debt payment due in 2005 (which may have just changed---I think they are going to pay half of that now and re-finance the rest for 2007-2008). I suppose you are trying to get on with Fedex? I wish you luck---it seems like a great carrier with a good mix of day and night flying. The ATR statement I made originated in the Flight INTL mag--and I thought it was interesting. If you think about it, the ATR72 might be able to carry close to the same amount of cargo as a 727-100 for short stage lengths. That right there is something the FEDEX management is probably looking at. But, G4G5 stated that AA might be selling Fedex a bunch of 757's (the best plane ever made in my opinion--easy to fly) and A300's--which would be good for you. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Goose17,
Well sorry. I didn't know you were there---good for you. It is hard to understand your sarcastic tone sometimes. When it comes to "Majors" for Cargo, I am sure we would both agree that Fedex is there already. Count yourself lucky for being at an airline (Cargo) that is relatively secure. I was just wondering what you thought about the ATR issue. I just brought this up because of the article and I thought it could be a potential threat to your pilots. I know that the ATR42's are going to your feeders, but if Fedex decides that ATR72's should go to them also, and slowly retires your 727 fleet---that could spell trouble. But, as I have already mentioned---if you received some AA 757s or some used 737-300's, that could help out your pilot growth.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Well sorry. I didn't know you were there---good for you. It is hard to understand your sarcastic tone sometimes. When it comes to "Majors" for Cargo, I am sure we would both agree that Fedex is there already. Count yourself lucky for being at an airline (Cargo) that is relatively secure. I was just wondering what you thought about the ATR issue. I just brought this up because of the article and I thought it could be a potential threat to your pilots. I know that the ATR42's are going to your feeders, but if Fedex decides that ATR72's should go to them also, and slowly retires your 727 fleet---that could spell trouble. But, as I have already mentioned---if you received some AA 757s or some used 737-300's, that could help out your pilot growth.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Goose17
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 528
who knows?
I haven't a clue on the ATR issue. We hear all the rumors, but I believe nothing until it is on the ramp. The 727s are old, noisy and inefficient, but they work and were cheap. We will need a replacement before too long, but what or when, no one really knows. As for my sarcasm, let me just say that I feel honored that you recognize Fed Ex as a Major (cargo).
Goose17
I haven't a clue on the ATR issue. We hear all the rumors, but I believe nothing until it is on the ramp. The 727s are old, noisy and inefficient, but they work and were cheap. We will need a replacement before too long, but what or when, no one really knows. As for my sarcasm, let me just say that I feel honored that you recognize Fed Ex as a Major (cargo).
Goose17
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