Fears and Visions

[Bjtdrvr]

An interesting conversation I had with a fo pilot recently. He called to check on getting out of phenom and spoke with high level manager. That manager told him that seniority list was unfair. With his hire date there should only have been about 100 flex guys placed in front of him instead of the 200 or so. He hinted that would be changed if this pilot would vote out the union basically saying it would go date of hire. I assume they are telling the flex guys the opposite thing?

 

[DirtyBeech]

An interesting conversation I had with a fo pilot recently. He called to check on getting out of phenom and spoke with high level manager. That manager told him that seniority list was unfair. With his hire date there should only have been about 100 flex guys placed in front of him instead of the 200 or so. He hinted that would be changed if this pilot would vote out the union basically saying it would go date of hire. I assume they are telling the flex guys the opposite thing?

I’m sure they’re saying whatever they feel each audience needs to hear to garner their vote.

 

[TexasChallenger]

what does SCOPE get you?

1. Loss of seniority on the seniority list.
2. Unequal basing system.
3. Captain upgrades out of seniority.

Should I continue ?

Quite possibly the stupidest post ever. I think you have scope confused with International Red Label.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

In all fairness I think he meant "what loss of scope gets you".

My understanding, in layman's terms, "scope" can be viewed as the protection a CBA (or any contract) gives against arbitrary and unilateral changes to not only how the company conducts business but how those changes might affect the career expectations of pilots. It the definition of exactly what is and is not covered.

However, I guess scope can also be viewed from a legal sense as precedent. So yes the company did that with Red Label.

In a sense you're both right and both in agreement.

Anybody with more knowledge want to correct my layman's definition?

Either way, both of your definitions mean one can only come to the following conclusion:

VOTE YES FOR THE IBT

 

[rajflyboy]

Quite possibly the stupidest post ever. I think you have scope confused with International Red Label.

nope

thats exactly what scope and joining two company seniority lists has done to a bunch of people

scope isn’t going to help the majority (it will help the minority get more) (unfortunately)

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Well SCOPE helped the fo pilots against KR vindictive actions. It was a grievance against them that kept the fo pilots flying the phenoms. If not for that he would have succeeded in stapling all fo pilots to the bottom of the seniority list(illegal) and killing the union off.

 

[rajflyboy]

Well SCOPE helped the fo pilots against KR vindictive actions. It was a grievance against them that kept the fo pilots flying the phenoms. If not for that he would have succeeded in stapling all fo pilots to the bottom of the seniority list(illegal) and killing the union off.

thats why you need a union

Scope probably had little to do with that

 

[TexasChallenger]

Scope is simply a tool that prevents management from using another set of pilots to fly airplanes under the company's name, such as Envoy with American or SkyWest with United, or at a minimum, to a certain degree. Truth be told, International Red Label is more of an "Alter Ego" carrier, which is a way for managements to circumvent their current roster of employees. GoJets was started as an alter ego to Trans States. Freedom Airlines was an alter ego for Mesa. Scope from the mainline carrier's CBA limits the size and number of these planes that can be flown under the flagship's namesake.

 

[rajflyboy]

Scope is simply a tool that prevents management from using another set of pilots to fly airplanes under the company's name, such as Envoy with American or SkyWest with United, or at a minimum, to a certain degree. Truth be told, International Red Label is more of an "Alter Ego" carrier, which is a way for managements to circumvent their current roster of employees. GoJets was started as an alter ego to Trans States. Freedom Airlines was an alter ego for Mesa. Scope from the mainline carrier's CBA limits the size and number of these planes that can be flown under the flagship's namesake.

more applicable in the 121 world (I agree)

 

[TexasChallenger]

more applicable in the 121 world (I agree)

Not necessarily. International Red Label is an alter ego. It’s a separate entity flown by out of seniority pilots with certain privileges that not everyone else enjoys. 121 or not, the effect to the rank and file is the same.