Fear?

[deskjockey]

I dont know if this sounds weird. However, I have been out of commercial flying since 1992 and have begun training to reinstate my CFI / MEI

The problem is that 11 years ,1 wife ,and two kids later, I find I am not the same pilot that I used to be. Shaking off the rust is not the issue. I feel that I could pass the CFI ride today. I cannot shake the feeling of fear while in the air. I think it may be that I now have much more to lose (family) than 11 years ago as a single guy.

Statistics would point out that I am more apt to be killed driving to the airport than doing touch and gos in a C-150. But its tough to apply logic to a feeling.

Has anyone else out there experiecned this?

 

[SpiderMan]

Read some of these posts involving favorite beer and mixed drinks, and you will see how everyone else deals with it.

 

[A Squared]

>>>>>Statistics would point out that I am more apt to be killed driving to the airport than doing touch and gos in a C-150.

Well, not to heap fuel on your fire, but.... You are much more likely to get killed doing touch and goes in a 150. It is true that *airline flying* is much safer than driving. It is not true that *general aviation flying* is safer than driving. In any kind of real statistical analysis, general aviation is much more dangerous than driving. Training is one of the more dangerous phases of GA. Sorry, this probably doesn't help at all

 

[fLYbUDDY]

It's quite normal to have an apprehension of being in the air. This can keep you alive. Flying is dangerous and maybe now you do realize more of what you (actually your family) have (has) to loose if something does go wrong. Also as you get older you start to realize (at least this is how it's been happening for me) that you are not indestructible. When I was in high school I lived a reckless life, doing certain things that could have really hurt (or killed) me. However, somehow when you are young (generally) you think nothing that bad will really happen, plus your curious so you will try stupid things just to quench that curiosity. Thank God I didn't start flying till collage (I grew up a little by then). Anyways I understand where your coming from and must admit that I sometimes can get a little nervous flying and was worried that I was worrying to much. From people I’ve talked to they say it is important to understand the risks with flying for obvious reasons. You can get killed in an airplane at anytime. Just read some of the sobering NTSB reports. I think it was Chuck Yeager that said something like what kept him alive through all his heroic flying is that he was always afraid of dying in an airplane. Anyways use your apprehension as a safety device and go the extra mile to make sure everything is 110% (including you) before flight.

And that statistic thing is inaccurate. I used to think that too (about you’re more likely to get killed on the way to the airport then in the airplane). Although that's statistically true for airline flying, GA pilots are 7 times more likely to get killed in an airplane then a car wreck (about equal to motorcycle fatalities). and we are like some 40 times worse than the airlines. I learned that from the King Schools risk management course. Bottom line is flying has risks and can cost a lot of money. If you can get by without doing it then maybe try a different hobby/job that can be safer and more relaxing for you. If you must fly, because you can think of no other thing you'd rather spend your time/money and are willing to deal with the awesome responsibility and risks with flying an airplane than go do it. It really comes down to what it is worth to you.

 

[hobbsmeter]

<Mental not to self: NEVER go to A Squared for advice>

Deskjockey your fears are valid, however I don't think they should stand in the way of you flying again.
I know you want to be a responsible husband & father but trying to shelter yourself from potential dangerous activities is not the answer.

 

[Timebuilder]

hobbsmeter raises a good point.

There are a great many things in life that are dangerous to practice. Yes, the monthly NTSB reports are sobering, but if you read the reports that caused death and injury, they are also very instructive.

Most of the reports involve the "Duh factor".

Pilot failed to drain accumulated water and assure that fuel caps had been secured. Duh.

Pilot had overloaded the airplane (remember the singer "Aaliya") and was not authorized to act as PIC. Duh.

Pilot attempted VFR flight into IMC conditions. Duh.

There are at least a dozen of these every month. If you eliminate these "Duh factor" events, then GA flying is much more competitive with the safety of multiengine jet flying that is practiced by the airlines.

I think the risks can be minimized to a reasonable level, particularly with an aircraft that gets 100 hour inspections, such as the aircraft that you are likely to fly while giving instruction. If you train well, you will be prepared for the majority of situations that may happen.

To echo your experience a little, I never gave a thought to having anything but a 100% safe flight back when I flew with my dad in an assortment of tri pacers, Cessnas, and a Bellanca. When I came back to flying as an adult, I realized that I was a mortal, and had a certain amount of uncertainty for several dozen hours. After a while, as my competancy grew, I knew that I was unlikely to face anything that I couldn't handle in an airplane, based on a good preflight, proper loading, and my emergency training.

Your expereince may be different. Give it a little time.

 

[WrightAvia]

I think you can say that Airline flying is safer than flying with the profile type of GA pilots that CRASHED. But you can't say in general that flying a 152 is more dangerous than driving a car, that would just be like saying there is a design flaw in cessna 152's and that Cessna should be sued out of existance.

I know the type that crash for stupid reasons. Like that dude that killed his daughter and an employee in his own R44 last week, while attempting to show them how good of a pilot he was on his student pilot certificate. Also try DALE STORM out of Shiocton, WI. I can mention this guy because he has an NTSB report in his name. Just about a month before he totalled out his 172 in that silly accident, he took off in that plane to go on a trip and asked me to fly under him to see if he still had the tow bar attached to the nose wheel.

"CHI94LA216
On July 1, 1994, at 1119 central daylight time, a Cessna 172, N7472X, registered to Dale L. Storm of Black Creek, Wisconsin, collided with trees and the terrain during initial takeoff climb from runway 27 (1,350' x 90', grass) at the Shiocton Airstrip, Shiocton, Wisconsin. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and a VFR flight plan was filed. The private pilot and two passengers were seriously injured. A third passenger received minor injuries. The airplane was destroyed by impact and post crash fire. The flight was departing for La Crosse, Wisconsin, when the accident occurred.

The pilot stated, the winds were westerly at approximately 23 knots and the takeoff was normal. He reported that as he neared the wooded area west of the airport "...it seemed as if the wind stopped. I had no lift, airspeed started to drop." He stated he lowered the nose to increase airspeed but that the "winds were pushing down on plane." The airplane crashed in the wooded area and was destroyed by fire. The pilot stated he made the takeoff using 10 degrees of flaps and that the stall warning horn sounded prior to impacting the trees.

Two witnesses reported seeing the airplane take off "slowly" and it was "slow getting up in the air." One of the passengers stated the pilot initially attempted to take off on runway 36 (2,240' x 100') but was unable to get airborne. The pilot then elected to take off on runway 27.

I know people that were there when that happened. Four adults and luggage and full fuel in a 172. Not only that, Dale told me he was in the process of switching insurance companies and he had a lapse of insurance going on because he had the plane in the paint shop for a paint job. He said the insurance check for the new policy was sitting on the coffee table at home in a stamped and addressed envelope. He lost the plane and had no insurance to cover the loss, nor the injuries. I haven't seen him around the airport since.

But anyway, to make a generalized statement about 152 flying being more dangerous than driving a car, well that's just as ludicrust as running around in a "W.W.J.D?" thong.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

But you can't say in general that flying a 152 is more dangerous than driving a car, that would just be like saying there is a design flaw in cessna 152's and that Cessna should be sued out of existance.

It is not just the 152 but GA as a whole that is more dangerous than driving. 7 times more dangerous. That includes 150s 152s 172s 182s twins and anything else GA!

 

[Timebuilder]

7 times more dangerous.

Remember, it can only be seven times more dangerous if you include ALL of the accidents and incidents, including ALL of the "Duh Factor" stuff.

If you fly smart and not stupid, your safety record is MUCH better.

 

[WrightAvia]

fLYbUDDY, then you should get a job as lawyer and sue those negligent light GA aircraft manufacturers out of existance and then get Airbus to make us some SAFE airplanes.

 

[dmspilot00]

There's a difference between saying that a random group of pilots flying general aviation airplanes are more likely to die than driving, than saying that flying GA is more dangerous. You can play around with statistics to make them say what you want them to say. For example, is the "7 times more likely" factor based on A) People who are pilots die 7 times more often in an aircraft than a car, B) Per each hour exposed there are more GA a/c accidents than car accidents, or C) Per each mile travelled there are more GA a/c accidents, etc.

Danger is defined as:
dan·ger n.
1. Exposure or vulnerability to harm or risk.
2. A source or an instance of risk or peril.

When you are driving, you are constantly "vulnerable" to harm or risk, e.g. from other drivers, road hazards, making a physical mistake, etc.

What exactly is the "vulnerability" in flying? When we fly, what are we vulnerable to?

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I'd say mainly our own lapses in judgement.

 

[WrightAvia]

I'll agree with you there dmspilot00. I have dead sticked 3 Cessnas to safe on airport landings and will still fly them.

Uncle Bob with 5 years of flight experience and a total time of 75 hours might be more likely to have 7 times more risk of a crash. That doesn't mean a 152 is dangerous.

 

[blott]

What exactly is the "vulnerability" in flying? When we fly, what are we vulnerable to?

Don't ANYONE think they are safe. this whole 7:1 deal is cause the FAA and the NTSB are CLEARLY aware that I am flying around our "friendly" skies on a weekly basis...Have been for 14 years-leaving a clear path of fear, terror, and destruction. People usually just bable incohearently, and have that "deer in the headlights" look after I'm gone. (it really helps that my Uncles last name is "Monroney"...

B

Just kidding, I think you are probably safer flying than driving. The fact that you expressed some fear is a sign that you probably won't do any of the stupid things that give ga the bad rate, fear is natural-we all have it.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

The 7:1 thing was just a stat I got from a King Schools risk management class. It was just to clear the confusion that most people think that flying is safer than driving. I'm not trying to do anything with statistics just emphasizing that when you fly you have a risk of crashing and possibly dying. Everything we do has risk but if you ignore the fact that flying is generally riskier than most other activities then you might end up in the NTSBs "DUH factor" accidents doing something stupid because you were complacent about risks. Just because flying has risks and dangers doesn't mean it can't be a safe hobby/sport/profession. It just takes admitting those risks exist and managing them accordingly. If you can't do that then you don't belong in an airplane.

 

[ShawnC]

A certain amount of FUD is good

I don't know about everyone else, but I am always a little scared when I go flying. The thing is I turn that fear into extra attention, make sure I have enough fuel, double check things on the pre-flight, make darn sure I know my emergency procedures.

It gives you an edge over the fearless pilot, you know that you can always die, but by using proper planning and being skilled enough I can still do what I love the most, and safely.

 

[labbats]

I've flown with too many fearless and overly frightened pilots. Both are bad.
The smart pilots are always aware of the dangers and make choices to minimize them. Anyone who did their CFI recently had to memorize the behavior patterns that are hazardous, one of which was the fearless pilot, which should be countered with the statement "it CAN happen to me".
But on the same note, a little fear is a little safety, and should be countered with "I did a thorough preflight and am airworthy myself, so I will have a pleasant flight".
Don't worry about the fear, I'd much, MUCH rather fly with someone aware of the dangers than someone who has something to prove.

 

[flywithastick]

Repeat of what many others have said. Sometimes I get some feeling of dread while driving to the field. I don't think I'm a particularly high risk type of pilot, but I still think about what if this or that happened. Nothing deblilitating (sp?) or serious enough to affect my performance though.

I think this little voice or feeling it's a good thing overall. Keeps you awake and aware of the possible consequences of complacency and error. Interesting though, I don't recall getting these feelings flying spam cans with students or in my Cub. It's because the Cub will only barely kill you. Right!?

Also, you've got kids. that weighs on me differently now that I have them also.