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FE positions

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Movin' on up!

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Feb 6, 2004
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Anybody know any companies hiring FEs? A friend of mine is trying to get into an FE position with an eventual move to the right seat. Thanks in advance for any info.
 
Omni is hiring, that is if you can handle the exceptionally lousy schedule & pay.
 
Kalitta does hire FEs off the street. I think they are going to be hiring a few for a class in October. You can upgrade to the right seat after a year as long as you have 1500 TT (it's really 750 hours because you can could 750 hrs of your FE time towards the 1500 hrs).

Pay rates and other info at http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/kalitta_air.html
 
Jonahproject said:
Kalitta is making all new hire F.E.s sign an agreement that they will never attempt to upgrade.
Click to expand...
The unions position is that the letter is not valid. The company can not renegotiate the contract with individual members. When their time comes to upgrade, either they will get to upgrade or it will be grieved.

Also, that was prior to the new contract, it's possible that that was company pressure on the part of contract negotiations.
 
iaflyer said:
Also, that was prior to the new contract, it's possible that that was company pressure on the part of contract negotiations.
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe it had to do more with the horribly low success rate of low time FEs (PFEs and SOs) upgrading to FO. It isn't entirely unreasonable to want pilot openings to be awarded to pilots who have the best chance of succeeding. The open positions are due to the need for more people to fly the jets, not to let folks test the waters and see how it goes. That incurs lost time, expense and possibly unnecessary training failures on the record. After which, the need is still there for people to fly the jets!

PFE upgrades have historically been difficult, because they almost always have low time and very limited and spread out pilot experience.
For a short time, the company tried the the Second Officer scheme. When they hired pilots, those who had the best time and experience were offered FO positions. Those who didn't were offered SO slots. That didn't work so well, because after a year or two of sitting sideways their, in some case, limited pilot skills were allowed to degrade, so when the upgrade opportunity came, it was a huge struggle.

Now they're back to hiring "real" experienced FEs, typically not pilot wannabes.

I think that if a low time guy with an FE ticket really wants to be a pilot, there may be better choices than KA.

Just my $.02
 
Kalitta Air has several Captains that were PFE's that went out and got their ratings and upgraded with a couple hundred hours. Just as with most other similar cargo airlines.

ATI has/had a program where they would reimburse for the cost of flight training (after Private) to get your ratings and then they would allow to bid an upgrade.
 
hanginupsidown said:
Some of thre best pilots I've ever flown with have been ex PFE's!!
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I absolutely agree. But good PFE skills don't necessarily translate to good pilot skills. Please don't misunderstand, I think everybody should have their opportunity. My point is that not everybody is a good candidate for upgrade.
There should be some honest soul searching when deciding to seek an upgrade because, realistically, having the seniority to get the seat is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
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What kind of qualifications do places like Kalitta look for in an FE? Does a pilot-rated A&P have a chance, or do you need to already be an FE with hundreds or thousands of hours?
 
hkgorbust said:
I absolutely agree. But good PFE skills don't necessarily translate to good pilot skills. Please don't misunderstand, I think everybody should have their opportunity. My point is that not everybody is a good candidate for upgrade.
There should be some honest soul searching when deciding to seek an upgrade because, realistically, having the seniority to get the seat is just the tip of the iceberg.
Click to expand...

As well with FO-Capt upgrades. Flying a B1900 and then two years in the right seat (B747) may not be enough time to bid the left seat when your number pops. Good point!
 
I've flown with some great "fefo's"as we call them at Gemini, with at least one ready for upgrade to Captain. That being said, 250 hours of ME PIC time is a great place for them to start and a tough place for the airline to look at an "F/O" to fly a heavy jet. We have had some great sucess stories and some "crash and burn" stories in the sim. Bottom line is be ready and have some sim time flying on the instruments. It's a big transition between watching and doing. Good luck to all who get the chance!
 
BTW, How come these posts are always " I've got a friend who" type posts? Does the friend actually have a computer? Can he post online himself? Why does he want to start out as an FE? Is he expecting you to get him a job in aviation?
I always feel like a shrink when someone asks "I've got this friend" kind of questions. What's the real deal here?
 
Fedora said:
What's the real deal here?
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"I've got a friend who doesn't want to spend ten bucks to ask you this question."

What's with the blue?
 
10 bucks is cheap if it leads to a job. Anyone interested should send their stuff in, but be forewarned that it is a difficult lifestyle. Also do not apply if you don't want a job here. If you turn it down you will probably not be given a shot in the future, though people that have quit on good terms have been rehired (with newhire seniority)
 
What's with the blue?
Click to expand...
LOL! Good one, Berkut! I dunno, I use it because it's there I guess. Been using it on chats and emails since I can remember. Tell your friend it's OK to come out and play!
 
$10 is a lot of hair gel.
 
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hkgorbust said:
Actually, I believe it had to do more with the horribly low success rate of low time FEs (PFEs and SOs) upgrading to FO. It isn't entirely unreasonable to want pilot openings to be awarded to pilots who have the best chance of succeeding. The open positions are due to the need for more people to fly the jets, not to let folks test the waters and see how it goes. That incurs lost time, expense and possibly unnecessary training failures on the record. After which, the need is still there for people to fly the jets!
Click to expand...
Exactly - that's why FEs who want to upgrade have to pass the same sim ride our new-hire FOs take as part of their hiring process. We don't just throw any FE who wants to upgrade in the sim and start teaching him. You are correct - about 25% of the FEs who have taken the sim ride in the last year have passed - the company isn't out much money - it's only 20 minutes in the sim and a day or two off of work.
 
There is an advantage to being FE in the same aircraft before going to the right seat. You learn the systems better and operate from a more knowledgeable standpoint when you go to the left seat. (That is if your doing your job properly.) Also, you learn the callouts, company policies and procedures, the basics of the sim profiles etc. It's not as steep of a learning curve compared to an FO w/no heavy experience coming off of the street.
 

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