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FDX/DHL boat race

  • Thread starter Thread starter oldawg
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That's not exacly right, and you know it. Even if it was, you're looking at the US express market only, which represents less than 10% of DPWN turn-over. As such, the board could be quite right in only allocating 10% of its time and resources to that market.

Far from sitting on their backends, DPWN actually bought 500 companies in 2006/7, and so far this year has bought a further 50-60ish. I know you're hurting guys, and trust me us DHL guys on the far side of the pond don't exactly feel happy that UPS will be doing the flying for us.

But please don't suffer from any grand illusions about the importance of the US Express market from a DPWN point of view.

WOW, 500 companies in that time frame is absolutely amazing! Too bad within those hundreds of companies they could not find one, just one guy or gal that knew what the F$%& they were doing and not lose the 18% market share Airborne had prior to them getting their grubby little hands on it.
 
That's not exacly right, and you know it. Even if it was, you're looking at the US express market only, which represents less than 10% of DPWN turn-over. As such, the board could be quite right in only allocating 10% of its time and resources to that market.

Far from sitting on their backends, DPWN actually bought 500 companies in 2006/7, and so far this year has bought a further 50-60ish. I know you're hurting guys, and trust me us DHL guys on the far side of the pond don't exactly feel happy that UPS will be doing the flying for us.

But please don't suffer from any grand illusions about the importance of the US Express market from a DPWN point of view.

Actually when you are objective about it Euro, that is exactly what they did. No attempt at integration at all. Just let 2 airlines and 2 sorts run day in day out for 5 years. Then act surprised when it costs hundreds of millions to do that. Then blame everyone else for their lack of action, and give the product to their prime competitor. As to DHL not being happy about UPS doing the flying, well no surprise there. UPS is already poaching customers left and right from DHL. It's just beginning. Further, all you have to do is look at DPWN's stock performance to know the shareholders don't approve. Buying companies without doing DD is not "doing something". It's being a fool.
 
Actually when you are objective about it Euro, that is exactly what they did. No attempt at integration at all. Just let 2 airlines and 2 sorts run day in day out for 5 years. Then act surprised when it costs hundreds of millions to do that. Then blame everyone else for their lack of action, and give the product to their prime competitor. As to DHL not being happy about UPS doing the flying, well no surprise there. UPS is already poaching customers left and right from DHL. It's just beginning. Further, all you have to do is look at DPWN's stock performance to know the shareholders don't approve. Buying companies without doing DD is not "doing something". It's being a fool.

Exactly heavy. Here's a just a few things DPWN/DHL management has never understood conceptually....

1. Timing - Might want to build a $200 Mill hub during not after the biggest boom economy in the last 50 years.....or...not.

2. Loyalty - Customer, partner, employee..... whatever. Just loyalty to someone other than the highbrow martini crowd of Bonn. DHL/DPWN seems to not have ANY regard whatsoever conceptually of actually honoring anything they say in contracts or otherwise. Too name just a few folks they've backed out on: 3000 loyal DHL drivers, The State of Kentucky, The State of Ohio, The pilots of AStar, the Owners of AStar, Walmart......etc

3. Humility - DHL apparently thought they could buy ABX, (an inferioir product by their own admission than FedUPS) paint it yellow, do NOTHING different and then compete head to head with FedUPS. It was like they thought they could arrive on US soil with flashy adds giving the finger to the competition, paint everything yellow, and the US consumer would simply say, "Thank God you showed up!"

4. Responsibility - Since day one here, I have never, ever, heard anyone at either DHL OR DPWN EVER take responsibility for why they couldn't make a profit in the US. Not once did they EVER talk about why they couldn't SELL THEIR PRODUCT! They only spoke of how non-profitable we were due to expenses. Always. They have invested in modernizing nearly every major DHL fleet in the rest of the 1st world....but never in the US. They didn't want CATII at AStar and then b1tch cause we can't get in. They want fuel savings but then won't pay to refleet. Want to be in a position of having multiple airlines whipsawing each other, but then b1tch about the cost of not consolidating the US airline ops. IT"S NEVER their fault.....always ours.

5. Negotiations - DHL/DPWN never asks politely, ever! They never negotiate a compromise...ever! They simply decide what they want and steamroll anyone who get's in their way. (See 3.) Arrogance in thinking they shouldn't have too....they're DPWN/DHL

6. Money - DPWN thinks that if you throw enough money at something long enough, even if you don't change ANYTHING materially that affects operations positively, it will eventually just organically go "poof", all better! THEN, when it doesn't they just act like it's not their responsibility to manage, teach, innovate, or grow the operations. They remind me of a barrel racing instructor my daughter once had who, didn't know jack about barrel racing, but needed to act like she did because otherwise nobody would use here. Her method of "instructing" her students during a barrel racing lesson was to simply yell, "Go faster!!" without ever telling em how. That's DPWN for ya. Don't ever really change or manage things, shovel the money towards the gaint sucking sound, and then complain that you're losing money and it's their fault.

I could probably go on.....but to sum it up....

DPWN arrogance + incompetence = Colossal Failure

Now go look in the mirror you SOBs!!
 
2. Loyalty ....(to) the Owners of AStar....etc
Actually Daz already got his big payoff when DHL purchased 49% of his company. The game's over for him, he already won, and he's just waiting to be told to turn off the lights.
 
Actually Daz already got his big payoff when DHL purchased 49% of his company. The game's over for him, he already won, and he's just waiting to be told to turn off the lights.

I think you may be 100% correct on that Peng. That's why, when Daz refuses to pay us WHEN he shuts off the lights, and claims DHL hasn't paid him so he can't pay us, there'll be some dandy lawsuits flying demonstrating he's been MORE than compensated to pay for our severance.
 
Actually Daz already got his big payoff when DHL purchased 49% of his company. The game's over for him, he already won, and he's just waiting to be told to turn off the lights.
Yea, pretty cool the way they structured that, huh? This way, Daz can say "I fully intend to honor...bla-bla-bla" but when the last Astar bird rolls into ILN, he can say, "Well, fellas, I fully intended to honor...bla-bla-bla, BUT..." and still keep his millions.

They're saying it will be "over by the end of 2009" because they don't want to see a mass exodus of employees, especially S/O's. I give it 6 months, tops.
 
Yea, pretty cool the way they structured that, huh? This way, Daz can say "I fully intend to honor...bla-bla-bla" but when the last Astar bird rolls into ILN, he can say, "Well, fellas, I fully intended to honor...bla-bla-bla, BUT..." and still keep his millions.
Not only that, but they were able to stick it to Hete by cratering his stock. He owns a bunch. Everybody knows they hate him

I still think it's possible this whole thing has been planned ever since DPWN took over DHL. Daz may have been in on it. What still remains to be seen is how the UPS deal plays out.
 
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Well when DHL/DPWN/AStar/UPS documents are subpoenaed in a lawsuit (from me at least) we'll find out who knew what and when they knew it.
 
Just for the record again. At this point, I really don't want this job anymore. I don't want to work for these SOBs anymore. I just want to be paid to go away, get recurrent, pay off some debt and move on.....in accordance with the CBA and in justice regarding DHL's/DPWN's frausdulent negotiations.

May not work out that way....but that's what I'm loading my shotgun for.
 
I still think it's possible this whole thing has been planned ever since DPWN took over DHL. Daz may have been in on it. What still remains to be seen is how the UPS deal plays out.
The UPS deal is gonna happen. This whole thing was run by BOTH sides through some of the finest and most expensive anti-trust and anti-labor legal minds in the country. It woud never have proceeded into negotiations had there been a serious possibility that it wouldn't pass muster.

What The Daz knew, and when, is probably immaterial at this point. As far as I know, CEO's are under no duty to divulge inside knowledge when negotiating a labor contract. There are reams of regulations and reporting requirements by which they must abide when they're offering stock to the public. But when they're negotiating with any outside interests on the company's behalf, it's pretty much like poker...lying isn't just permissable, it's expected.

Labor plays by the same rules. But in this case, they just didn't play as well. Personally, I think there were too many guys who were itching to get their hands on that retro check, and not enough who were really questioning the company and it's leaders.

I hope they saved some of that money...
 
The UPS deal is gonna happen. This whole thing was run by BOTH sides through some of the finest and most expensive anti-trust and anti-labor legal minds in the country. It woud never have proceeded into negotiations had there been a serious possibility that it wouldn't pass muster.

What The Daz knew, and when, is probably immaterial at this point. As far as I know, CEO's are under no duty to divulge inside knowledge when negotiating a labor contract. There are reams of regulations and reporting requirements by which they must abide when they're offering stock to the public. But when they're negotiating with any outside interests on the company's behalf, it's pretty much like poker...lying isn't just permissable, it's expected.

Labor plays by the same rules. But in this case, they just didn't play as well. Personally, I think there were too many guys who were itching to get their hands on that retro check, and not enough who were really questioning the company and it's leaders.

I hope they saved some of that money...

There is a very good chance it will go through, but it has not even started possible investigations. The litmus tests are just being started. If other areas of anticompetitive concerns of past come into play, it may even have a better chance to not go through. I still say it stinks of anticompetitive problems and the American consumers would pay pay pay. But who knows.


Competitor collaborations may involve agreements jointly to sell, distribute, or promote goods or services that are either jointly or individually produced. Such agreements may be procompetitive, for example, where a combination of complementary assets enables products more quickly and efficiently to reach the marketplace. However, marketing
collaborations may involve agreements on price, output, or other competitively significant
variables, or on the use of competitively significant assets, such as an extensive distribution network, that can result in anticompetitive harm.

I don't see the difference in a goods distribution being anticompetitive vs. distribution being the business. But who knows how the lawyer experts read these things.
 
The UPS deal is gonna happen. This whole thing was run by BOTH sides through some of the finest and most expensive anti-trust and anti-labor legal minds in the country. It woud never have proceeded into negotiations had there been a serious possibility that it wouldn't pass muster.
Yep. I agree it's gonna happen. This thing has probably been planned out for years. I was just wondering what the final UPS/DHL agreement is gonna look like, and what it's going to mean for the UPS pilots. I think the world of air cargo is migrating to ACMI.

And I'll say it again. I gotta hand it to you Dan... you called this DHL/UPS setup correctly over a year ago! We shoulda listened!
 
Fraudulent bargaining.....that's illegal, and that's the trail I've got lawyers looking down. You can't negotiate with one party one thing while negotiating with another party for the exact opposite. But we'll see.
 
Fraudulent bargaining.....that's illegal, and that's the trail I've got lawyers looking down. You can't negotiate with one party one thing while negotiating with another party for the exact opposite. But we'll see.

Isn't that what ALPA has been doing to the regionals vs. the majors in their scope sections of their contracts?
 

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