Fatal Mid-Air: Caravan and UFO?

[Jedi_Cheese]

Not in night IMC. Whatever it was, it caught him by complete surprise. I don't think many of us would be quick enough to formulate an escape manuver and execute it by instruments. He probably didn't even know what it was or which way to go to avoid it.

Why would you execute it by instruments? If you got another target on a collision course, you can visually miss the target. Priority 1 is missing the aircraft inbound on you, 2 is anything else.

jetexas had an interesting idea about the transmission made after the contact. It wouldn't explain the red substance inside the cockpit but it would explain why he didn't deviate from where he was going.

 

[freightdoggie]

There was some talk, or speculation, I cannot validate where I heard it, but they talked of some Navy boys being the first ones at the crash sight... Any thought of a UVA out there flying around and being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Why would you execute it by instruments? If you got another target on a collision course, you can visually miss the target. Priority 1 is missing the aircraft inbound on you, 2 is anything else.

I really don't think that many of us would be quick enough to react with no outside visual cues. Remember it was probably pitch black. Any manuver would probably not be in the right direction and if you did miss whatever you saw, you would have gotten into some unusual attitude- a reaction that would not be intuitive, knowing that you may wind up stalled or whatever...


Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

He made a radiocall. If it was before the aircraft hit the UFO, he would have had some time to think about what going on (I believe it is something like 8 seconds from when you first physically see to when you successfully avoid something). His radio call shows he made it through the detection/identification stage and started avoidance (making control surface movements and a plan of action).

They usually check the towers around the accident for scrapes and damage if there is red paint. I don't know the area and the report doesn't mention anything so I can't guess.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.

From the report:

"The only radar data available was a 'snap shot' taken from the equipment at Mobile Regional Departure Control and NTAP data from Atlanta Center. The data shows that night ship 282, was at 3000 feet..."

 

[A Squared]

Originally posted by Oakum_Boy
I would surmise the costal defence radar ballons were not being used due to the weather.

I'm not aware that bad weather keeps them from using the TARS (Tethered Aerostat Radar System) It wasn't particularly windy, or stormy, just low clouds.

Originally posted by Jedi_Cheese
Plus C-208's are not exactly a wooden biplane in construction. To hit that hard, it should have done a hell of alot of damage to the other aircraft. The spread is 200 yards at a fall from 3k ft so the other aircraft would be somewhat nearby. Plus whatever part (or parts) hit his aircraft should be near the wreckage someplace, the other aircraft might have gone ballistic but not the parts

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, surely there'd be parts from the other plane scattered around, even if the bulk of it stayed together and sank.

Originally posted by starchkr
Could the DC-10 have been on some sort of military training mission...I don't know, maybe escorted by smaller a/c or maybe towing targets????

That seems unlikely, the DC-10 was identified as a Fed Ex plane which was approaching to land as Mobile downtown. The investigators examined the plane and found no damage.

Originally posted by starchkr
The red paint could have been caused by cargo he was carrying being thrown around the a/c after hitting that turbulence.

Good thought, but the investigators seem to have ruled that out. they did paint analysis on all the red items they found and compared with the paint transfer, they didn't come up with any matches, suggesting that the source of the paint was not the cargo. Plus, most of the red paint was on the *outside* of the airplane

Originally posted by Oakum_Boy
Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.

I wouldn't think that was likely. The wreckage was found about 8 nm from the airport on a magnetic bearing of 031, that would put it right on V454, which was the airway he was told to join by departure. If you look at the approach plate for Mobile downtown the highest obstruction in that direction is 517 ft MSL which would mean that he would have to be 2500 ft low but appear to ATC radar to be right on altitude. Not impossible, but unlikely, plus 8 nm would put him well beyond the 517 ft obstruction. There is a 2000 ft obstruction, but it appears to me that it would be well to the east fo the crash site. I would imagine that any towers in the area would be examined for damage.

Originally posted by freightdoggie
There was some talk, or speculation, I cannot validate where I heard it, but they talked of some Navy boys being the first ones at the crash sight... Any thought of a UVA out there flying around and being in the wrong place at the wrong time?.

Interesting thought, very interesting. The accident report mentions that one of the red items that was tested for a paint match was a piece from an unmanned aerial vehicle .... ummmm UAV? What UAV? the report doesn't say where the UAV piece came from, nor *why* they were testing it..........Hmmmmm, it would be interesting to know what *really* went on in the investigation.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I was down in that area the other night cruising along in the 'Van, and thought about this crash. Any new details on it yet?

Last I heard the NTSB reclaimed the wreckage, and the one piece they found embedded in the wing that they thought didn't belong, actually did, belong to the plane.

Also read that the red transfer markings were not paint, but clear coat and did not match that of a sample of UAV that they tested, nor anything else in or on the plane.

Looking at the wreckage photos on caravancrash.com, that plane got obliterated by something, yet no other wreckage has been found. Things that make you go "hmm". Any new theories out there?

 

[FN FAL]

I believe that Tom Priziose's sister is an airline pilot and she had a web page up detailing her personal efforts to get to the bottom of this crash. Evidently, there was a lot of wreckage left behind after they were done investigating and she was paying a salvage crew out her own pocket to retrieve the wreckage...I believe there were some pretty good pictures on her website. A www.google.com search should bring the website up.

 

[Metro752]

http://www.45thdustoff.org/html/tom.html thats some stuff

How about a coast guard C-130?

 

[E46_guy]

http://www.caravancrash.com/