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Fatal Mid-Air: Caravan and UFO?

  • Thread starter Thread starter FN FAL
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FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
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8,573
LINK TO FINAL NTSB REPORT ON CARAVAN MID AIR FATAL CRASH

I knew Tom Priziose, as he was my instructor at Pan Am for my initial Level D Caravan sim training.

He eventually went on to fly caravans for a freight company and crashed in this mysterious caravan accident.

Tom was a retired NYPD helicopter pilot and a real nice guy.

When I first heard of this crash, I thought for sure he had a load shift, but this NTSB report of a collision with an unidentified object is just plain odd.
 
You're right...that's really strange.

First thing that comes to mind is maybe the other plane dropped something. But that doesn't really make any sense.

Where's the other aircraft, the one he hit? Somebody else was flying in IMC without their transponder on let alone talking to ATC. How big is this swamp? Could the wreckage of the other plane have been missed?

As tragic as it always is to lose a friend so suddenly, how much worse when you don't know what happened. You have my prayers.
 
You have my prayers.
Thanks mattfish42...I appreciate the thought, but I think Tom's family deserves that more than I do...once again thank you for your consideration, that was very nice.:)

I knew Tom a just little bit and really clicked with him during my initial training. He was so excited about leaving Pan Am to be a Saab 340 instructor at Pinnacle, that he was showing me the CPT pannels in the 340 mock up room at Pan Am and asking me questions about some of the items on the panels. Somehow things didn't work out for him at Pinnacle and he came back to PanAm for a while to teach caravan again. He said it had to do with 9/11? I'm not going to question how that Pinnacle thing went. He then left Pan Am to fly freight in the Caravan at this particular job where he died.

It's probably a good thing that they found some cause to the accident other than pilot error...I'm sure the insurance companies were withholding any payout to the family untill some cause was established.

The odd thing is this object could have been another aircraft that was being used for illegal activity such as drug running or was as you said an illegal IFR flyer. Obviously there is someone out there that knows more about this crash than the feds do and they have probably repaired their aircraft and repainted it or it's in the boonies somewhere in a pile.

I would also have to wonder if the other plane crashed, why wasn't there an ALNOT issued or at least a missing persons report?

Odd and sad.

Have a fun and safe week mattfish!
 
That's bizzare, truly bizzare.

Whatever it hit, it hit hard. Take a look at the list of places they found red paint transfer: Instrument panel support, Lower aft side of cockpit cargo barrier. If you're getting paint transfer on pieces *inside* the plane, it wasn't just one of those "bump" midairs that caused one plane to go out of control and the other to continue on it's merry way. You would think that if two planes collided that hard, both would crash ... so where's the other plane? You'd think that there would be pieces of the other plane scattered around too. investigators found only one small piece of anodized aluminum which may the been a piece of another plane.

Sorry about your friend, FN_FAL
 
The simplest explantation is probably the correct one. More than likely he hit a drug running aircraft. In the area of the crash, there is a huge open bay that another aircraft would have simply sunk without a trace. Weather, time, and location would be conducive to a drug running operation. I would surmise the costal defence radar ballons were not being used due to the weather. No one would report that airplane or person missing either. Whatever he hit, he saw coming, but not in time to tell us what it was... Sad.
 
Thing is he had time to get a warning out and yet hit the UFO almost straight on. Wouldn't you think that his first instinct would be to change paths?

Plus C-208's are not exactly a wooden biplane in construction. To hit that hard, it should have done a hell of alot of damage to the other aircraft. The spread is 200 yards at a fall from 3k ft so the other aircraft would be somewhat nearby. Plus whatever part (or parts) hit his aircraft should be near the wreckage someplace, the other aircraft might have gone ballistic but not the parts...

PS: Sorry about your friend and hope his family is doing ok
 
"I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed" end of transmission.

Pretty chilling, but it sounds to me that maybe he had already hit something and was going down during these transmissions.

The wierd thing is the report states that some of the small red transfer marks were going in different directions. Red marks on the aft part of the cargo barrier? Maybe he got hit from below and behind?
 
Could the DC-10 have been on some sort of military training mission...I don't know, maybe escorted by smaller a/c or maybe towing targets???? Like i said i don't know, but if that was the case, then the military would do everything they could to cover it up. Just an idea, but it seems to have something to do with the DC-10 going past...what about wake turbulence...the red paint could have been caused by cargo he was carrying being thrown around the a/c after hitting that turbulence.

Sorry to hear about the accident.
 
Jedi_Cheese said:
Thing is he had time to get a warning out and yet hit the UFO almost straight on. Wouldn't you think that his first instinct would be to change paths?
B]


Not in night IMC. Whatever it was, it caught him by complete surprise. I don't think many of us would be quick enough to formulate an escape manuver and execute it by instruments. He probably didn't even know what it was or which way to go to avoid it.
 
Oakum_Boy said:
Not in night IMC. Whatever it was, it caught him by complete surprise. I don't think many of us would be quick enough to formulate an escape manuver and execute it by instruments. He probably didn't even know what it was or which way to go to avoid it.

Why would you execute it by instruments? If you got another target on a collision course, you can visually miss the target. Priority 1 is missing the aircraft inbound on you, 2 is anything else.

jetexas had an interesting idea about the transmission made after the contact. It wouldn't explain the red substance inside the cockpit but it would explain why he didn't deviate from where he was going.
 
There was some talk, or speculation, I cannot validate where I heard it, but they talked of some Navy boys being the first ones at the crash sight... Any thought of a UVA out there flying around and being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
 
Jedi_Cheese said:
Why would you execute it by instruments? If you got another target on a collision course, you can visually miss the target. Priority 1 is missing the aircraft inbound on you, 2 is anything else.

I really don't think that many of us would be quick enough to react with no outside visual cues. Remember it was probably pitch black. Any manuver would probably not be in the right direction and if you did miss whatever you saw, you would have gotten into some unusual attitude- a reaction that would not be intuitive, knowing that you may wind up stalled or whatever...


Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.
 
He made a radiocall. If it was before the aircraft hit the UFO, he would have had some time to think about what going on (I believe it is something like 8 seconds from when you first physically see to when you successfully avoid something). His radio call shows he made it through the detection/identification stage and started avoidance (making control surface movements and a plan of action).

They usually check the towers around the accident for scrapes and damage if there is red paint. I don't know the area and the report doesn't mention anything so I can't guess.
 
Oakum_Boy said:
Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.

From the report:

"The only radar data available was a 'snap shot' taken from the equipment at Mobile Regional Departure Control and NTAP data from Atlanta Center. The data shows that night ship 282, was at 3000 feet..."
 
Originally posted by Oakum_Boy
I would surmise the costal defence radar ballons were not being used due to the weather.

I'm not aware that bad weather keeps them from using the TARS (Tethered Aerostat Radar System) It wasn't particularly windy, or stormy, just low clouds.


Originally posted by Jedi_Cheese
Plus C-208's are not exactly a wooden biplane in construction. To hit that hard, it should have done a hell of alot of damage to the other aircraft. The spread is 200 yards at a fall from 3k ft so the other aircraft would be somewhat nearby. Plus whatever part (or parts) hit his aircraft should be near the wreckage someplace, the other aircraft might have gone ballistic but not the parts

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, surely there'd be parts from the other plane scattered around, even if the bulk of it stayed together and sank.



Originally posted by starchkr
Could the DC-10 have been on some sort of military training mission...I don't know, maybe escorted by smaller a/c or maybe towing targets????

That seems unlikely, the DC-10 was identified as a Fed Ex plane which was approaching to land as Mobile downtown. The investigators examined the plane and found no damage.


Originally posted by starchkr
The red paint could have been caused by cargo he was carrying being thrown around the a/c after hitting that turbulence.

Good thought, but the investigators seem to have ruled that out. they did paint analysis on all the red items they found and compared with the paint transfer, they didn't come up with any matches, suggesting that the source of the paint was not the cargo. Plus, most of the red paint was on the *outside* of the airplane



Originally posted by Oakum_Boy
Does anyone think its plausible that this guy had an altimeter problem, in other words, he hit something a lot lower than 3000'? Maybe an antenna or a bridge or something.

I wouldn't think that was likely. The wreckage was found about 8 nm from the airport on a magnetic bearing of 031, that would put it right on V454, which was the airway he was told to join by departure. If you look at the approach plate for Mobile downtown the highest obstruction in that direction is 517 ft MSL which would mean that he would have to be 2500 ft low but appear to ATC radar to be right on altitude. Not impossible, but unlikely, plus 8 nm would put him well beyond the 517 ft obstruction. There is a 2000 ft obstruction, but it appears to me that it would be well to the east fo the crash site. I would imagine that any towers in the area would be examined for damage.


Originally posted by freightdoggie
There was some talk, or speculation, I cannot validate where I heard it, but they talked of some Navy boys being the first ones at the crash sight... Any thought of a UVA out there flying around and being in the wrong place at the wrong time?.

Interesting thought, very interesting. The accident report mentions that one of the red items that was tested for a paint match was a piece from an unmanned aerial vehicle .... ummmm UAV? What UAV? the report doesn't say where the UAV piece came from, nor *why* they were testing it..........Hmmmmm, it would be interesting to know what *really* went on in the investigation.
 
Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I was down in that area the other night cruising along in the 'Van, and thought about this crash. Any new details on it yet?

Last I heard the NTSB reclaimed the wreckage, and the one piece they found embedded in the wing that they thought didn't belong, actually did, belong to the plane.

Also read that the red transfer markings were not paint, but clear coat and did not match that of a sample of UAV that they tested, nor anything else in or on the plane.

Looking at the wreckage photos on caravancrash.com, that plane got obliterated by something, yet no other wreckage has been found. Things that make you go "hmm". Any new theories out there?
 
I believe that Tom Priziose's sister is an airline pilot and she had a web page up detailing her personal efforts to get to the bottom of this crash. Evidently, there was a lot of wreckage left behind after they were done investigating and she was paying a salvage crew out her own pocket to retrieve the wreckage...I believe there were some pretty good pictures on her website. A www.google.com search should bring the website up.
 

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