Far 25.111

[MauleSkinner]

TERPs guys and certificaion guys apparently don't talk to each other, therefore, we have two different sets of criteria applied. As for why they do not agree on one set of rules, I do not know, but that is the reality of it.

In reality, there is no need for the criteria to be the same...TERPS are designed for flight in IMC; whereas certification requirements are the minimum standard for VMC flight, when obstacles can be seen and avoided.

It's really no different than your light twin, which doesn't require ANY climb rate with an engine inop...it's generally ok in VMC conditions, but not taking obstacles into account in IMC can be hazardous to your health.

Fly safe!

David

 

[GVFlyer]

Aren't you the same guy who once contributed a post in the defense of flying old crap? Something about making you a better pilot or something?

It's got to be an educational experience flying an airplane where at night, you set the mixture control on the 4 Pratt & Whitney R-2800's by looking at the 18 foot flame pattern they generate.

GV

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

It's got to be an educational experience flying an airplane where at night, you set the mixture control on the 4 Pratt & Whitney R-2800's by looking at the 18 foot flame pattern they generate.

GV

Now that is funny!

 

[mar]

Did I say that?

Aren't you the same guy who once contributed a post in the defense of flying old crap? Something about making you a better pilot or something?

Yeah that sounds like something I'd say: Pure brilliance. Thanks for reminding me.

It's really no different than your light twin, which doesn't require ANY climb rate with an engine inop...it's generally ok in VMC conditions, but not taking obstacles into account in IMC can be hazardous to your health.

Actually, there is (was) a requirement for a positive rate of climb on light twins

Ref: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/67a6f26638f5b1c385256687006b9239!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-3

The link above is the old FAR airplanes used to be certificated under. The next link is the new FAR pertaining to, obviously, new airplanes: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/2459CA427595FBF685256687006BC958?OpenDocument

 

[MauleSkinner]

Actually, there is (was) a requirement for a positive rate of climb on light twins

Ref: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/67a6f26638f5b1c385256687006b9239!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-3

The link above is the old FAR airplanes used to be certificated under. The next link is the new FAR pertaining to, obviously, new airplanes: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/2459CA427595FBF685256687006BC958?OpenDocument

You are correct. I should have said, "...which may not require ANY climb rate with an engine inop...", as aircraft under 6000 lbs with Vso less than 70 mph/61kts (depending on the reg) show up with no positive climb requirements.

I'm sure that aircraft certificated under CAR 3 or Aeronautical Bulletin 7A have less stringent requirements yet, so it's also important to know the basis under which your airplane was certificated.

Fly safe!

David

 

[A Squared]

It's got to be an educational experience flying an airplane where at night, you set the mixture control on the 4 Pratt & Whitney R-2800's by looking at the 18 foot flame pattern they generate.

GV

Actually, we set the mixture control by reference to the torquemters. In the DC-6 you can't see the exhaust flames, all the exhaust stacks are on the outboard sides of the nacelles. Douglas did it that way specifically so that the passengers couldn't see "flames coming out of the engines" which made then nervous. It requires a more complicated exhaust system but Douglas figures it was worth it if passengers felt safer flying a DC-6. That philosophy was abandoned with the DC-7 as it would be almost impossibe (or at least very difficult) to route the overboard stacks from all 3 Power Recovery Turbines on the R-3350 to the outboard side.

You can see the exhaust flame on the C-46 at night, and it is truly an impressive sight.