Falcon 50 Vs. Hawker 800XP - need advice

[Astra Guy]

The 50, hands down.

 

[Rick1128]

There have been some proposals to make the proposed 135 ETOPS regs match the proposed EU ETOPS regs. EU ETOPS proposal also includes part 91 operators. More of the FAA bending over for the EU.

 

[2000flyer]

There have been some proposals to make the proposed 135 ETOPS regs match the proposed EU ETOPS regs. EU ETOPS proposal also includes part 91 operators. More of the FAA bending over for the EU.

True, but from all I've read to date, EU ETOPS will only be required for EU registered aircraft.

In reading the FAA's future 'play book', they do appear to be taking a more "ICAO" approach to things. In some aspects, we're well behind European practices (can you imagine doing 350 KIAS @ 4000' near TEB?). The FAA is gearing up RNAV routes, finally getting around to DRVSM and a host of other projects.

2000Flyer

 

[Valkyrie]

The Falcon 50 is expensive in a cabin point of view.

But if you have that extra money, you get a stylish and safe performer (better RWY, CLIMB, CRZ, CEILING perf.)

If you can afford the 50EX, you'll have one of the best aircraft available.

 

[Live4flyng]

If you are starting a Fractional Ownership company and not operating yet, you might want to review the 91K regs. I'm pretty sure I read a blurb in there about only operating under 91K if you weren't in existence before October or November of 2003. Make sure you can comply with everything before you buy the plane. My vote is for the 50, it's a nice airplane.

 

[Rick1128]

US a/c in europe are being held to JAR standards. Both flight crew members are being required to hold types. Even though ICAO states that pilots must be liecenced in accordance to the nationalality of the aircraft. So don't hold your breath on the ETOPS issue.

As for what aircraft, it really comes down to what the boss wants and what will do the job.

 

[2000flyer]

US a/c in europe are being held to JAR standards. Both flight crew members are being required to hold types. Even though ICAO states that pilots must be liecenced in accordance to the nationalality of the aircraft. So don't hold your breath on the ETOPS issue.
.

I've heard other countries checking pilot's though I have never personally been asked by an EASA (formerly JAA) official for verification of certificates. Thats not to say I don't agree that at some point I'm sure we'll follow their rule of ETOPS. I think, staying on the organized tracks (or around them on a random route) you'd be hard pressed to be more than 180 minutes from a suitable airport in the North Atlantic, obviously figuring normal or typical conditions. I think those trying to go a more southerly route, say between Bermuda and Santa Maria or a more direct route to Africa will begin running into problems.

2000Flyer

 

[buckdanny]

Thank you very much for the replies. I think he is going to talk to the partners (those with the $$$$) about the F50. Thanks again, I will probably post something when we get moving!

Buck

 

[JetA1]

Buckdanny,

I have extensive fraction experience...from start up to one of the major providers. Better do your homework...if you need advise drop me a msg.

Regards

 

[CL60]

Very different mission designs...

The idea of Fractional ownership is based upon having multiple aircraft with multiple owners so that mathematically, most owners will have access to "their" aircraft when they need to fly. From what it looks like, you will have one aircraft with multiple owners... a bit more difficult to satisfy all the partner's individual needs.

You say that you will be "flying a lot in California" and occasionally going to Hawaii so you must have already collected identified some mission data. (If you're going to Hawaii, forget about reliable 800 trips in the winter when everyone wants to go. Starting a trip without a wet footprint may be challenging). What is your average estimated stage length? What will be your estimated average pax load? Do you need baggage space for skis? Golf clubs?

You say that:
"Both planes can fly long distances. Is there one that is better than the other, or is it just a matter of personal preference? Which one is more comfortable for longer haul flights? Another aspect I was considering is the safety factor of having 3 engines on the Falcon. I am pretty new to this, so every advice will be greatly appreciated!"


I'm not sure I'd clasify the 800XP as a long distance aircraft at around 2,500 nm/LRC but the Falcon 50EX advertises about 3,100 nm/.80. Not bad.

The question about personal preference is subjective.

Yes 3 engines are better than two unless you're thinking about operating cost, maintenance, etc...

Both are great airplanes for what they were individually designed to do. You may need to do a bit more research before deciding on any aircraft. There are others that may better fit your mission profile.

Good luck,