Falcon 50 versus Hawker 800XP

[HvyjetFO]

Considering upgrade from C650 to DA50 or H25B. Need better short field performance and range and these potentially would be in the price range (not the EX). Any insight? Problems with either? Thanks.
Hvy

 

[fisherpilot]

I've never flown either one, but have friends that have flown both. I'm almost positive they would say to go with the 50 hands down. I know it has great performance off of short runways.

 

[LJ45]

The operating cost of the DA50 will be much higher than the Hawker.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

The operating cost of the DA50 will be much higher than the Hawker.

You can operate full out of 4500 feet most days of the year and go anywhere in CONUS with the 50. NY to London non-stop usually, but almost always requires a stop on the way back. I think we used 2600 lbs an hour for fuel planning. I know nothing about the Hawker, but our 50 was bullet proof rarely requiring unscheduled maintenance. They are getting up there in age. If you look at them, make sure they have had the corrosion inspection Falcon requires to continue maintaining them.

 

[Tgaug6300]

How many people? What is typical mission? How short of runway are we talking?

 

[johnsonrod]

Go with the Falcon 50!

The Falcon 50 looks far better on the ramp... I would say that some people feel the third engine adds to safety and that can be important to the owner. Hopefully you would find a F50 with some basic EFIS as well so that it looks somewhat modern up front...

 

[HvyjetFO]

Our typical mission is 7 pax, 1000 miles or less, out and backs. Ooperate to many small towns with 5000 ft runways that the 650 just doesnt do well with. Occasionally have transcons that require fuel stop. Potential exists to expand into more international flying. We consistenly fight CG issues and runway performance in the 650. The 800XP appears more in line with DOCs we have been dealing with, although I don't like the cabin layout and the baggage compartment arrangement. The 50 is has everything we need and then some, although I am most concerned with reasonable DOCs and maintenance.

 

[LJ45]

excel?

 

[BoilerUP]

http://www.jetsearch.com/index.php/JetComparison

The Falcon 50 would be an all-around more capable aircraft, but at a substantially higher DOC (roughly 50% higher based on the Conklin numbers from the above link). Of note, it also shows the 800XP with ~20% lower DOCs than the Citation III.

For the cost of a mid-80s Falcon 50, you could probably pick up an early 2000s 800XP with PL21, do new paint/interior, and install API winglets for the same total acqusition cost.

 

[jet2work]

The Hawker is a very reliable and capable aircraft. The Collins ProLine Equipped XP's are a joy to fly. The Achilles heel of the Hawker is it's lack of baggage space. If you are doing out and back trips with brief cases, then the airplane is perfect.

The Hawker is built like a tank. It is a 40+ year old design. I have flown old ones and new ones, and they are reliable aircraft that are not maintenance intensive. First hour fuel burn is about 2000PPH, 2nd hour 1800, 3rd Hour 1700, 4th 1600. DOCs are very reasonable. The aircraft performs well hot and high (but nothing like the Falcon). If you are going out of a higher elevation mountainous airport with an obstacle departure (Aspen, Eagle, Telluride etc..) there are times when you cannot do it unless the weather is above published takeoff minima (technically Part 91 you can do whatever you want as long as you are not afraid of being labled careless and reckless).

The Falcon is a good airplane too. It has the same engines as the Hawker (TFE731's) The cabin is not much bigger than the Hawker, and by virtue of the fact that you are looking at a straight 50, you will likely end up with a dated cockpit. If you need short runway performance or high elevation performance, the 50 is what you need. If you have your own fuel farm and can tanker fuel, you can bring down the cost of operations in ways that you cannot in the Hawker. One last thing. The Falcon has trailing link landing gear. The Hawker does not. The Falcon will make you look like a better pilot. The Hawker will make you a better pilot.