Falcon 20/731 coversion. Info please

[DC8Driver]

Any info would be helpful on the pros and cons of purchasing a Falcon 20/731 conversion.

How about parts/service?

Operating costs?

Resale after 3 or 5 years.

How about other viable aircraft options in the 9 to 12 million dollar range.

The company currently operates an ultra but now needs more range and baggage space.

Thanks in advance

 

[2000flyer]

DC8

If you have access to B/CA's, they did an article on the retrofit 20/731 within the last 6-9 months. I have only talked to folks who've flown the 20/731 and they really seem to enjoy it...especially the ones with the retrofit avionics as well.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[Rick1128]

DC8,

I think you will find the DA20-5 well under your price market, even DA20F-5. With the market you are considering there are several aircraft:

HS125-800 & XP
DA50
G2
G3
CE650

Just to name a few. I flew an early 20 without the conversation. Like the aircraft. The trailing link gear amkes landing very nice. I was told about the only way to make a hard landing is to drive the aircraft nose first onto the runway. Might be a little bit of an exageration.

One thing you will notice when you start shopping is that DA20-5's, especially E and F models have a much higher asking price than DA200's. I believe the reason for this is that the engines on the 200 have had a great deal of problems and there are only 18 or 25 worldwide loaners. And the Coast Guard has first dibs on all of them.

Two issues to keep in mind about 20's. It's an old airframe. Falcon Jet has been very good about supporting it's products. The airframe is very tough. The one I flew had over 27,000 hours on it. I do understand parts are becoming hard to find. It is also a very heavy airframe.

Good luck.

 

[banned username 2]

If you are looking in the 9-12 million range, I would seriously consider a Falcon 50.... I think for 12 million you could probably find a fairly decent Falcon 50....

Benefits a Falcon 50 has over a Falcon 20-5, the Falcon 50 has:

1. More range. (about 500-700 miles more)
2. Better runway numbers
3. Better climb performance (second segment climb)
4. Newer airframe and systems
5. Better resale value
6. Much more baggage space

Hope this helps....

 

[LearjetGA]

The Dassault is a fantastic machine. No doubt about that.

Have you considered buying a brand new Lear 60, you will have a new plane, warranty, EFIS, RVSM, can get 8.33 spacing or FM immunity, you have an APU, stand up cabin, Lavatory, reasonnable baggage compartment. They run around 11 to 12 millions.
Performance, you will equal or outperform the DA20.

Just a thought.

 

[DA2000]

DA20-5

I'll leave the comments about Lear 60 comparisons to others!

We have a 20F-5.

It is an 85 model, 3500 Total time, 1600 since the conversion.

As far as flying qualities, few aircraft are more fun.

We operate reqularly out of Denver in the summer. Typically we take 8 golfers and their stuff 450 nm. No problems.

Reliability is extremely good. I don't think the same thing can be said for the 27,000 TT aircraft out there. But I'd bet anything that the maintenance on a well looked after 27,000 hour 20 is better than on any Wichita product with the same total time. Of course I don't think you'll find any!

We cruise at .82-.85. At ISA +15, heavy, and at 410 we might only see .80 for the first hour. 2000 lbs first hour, 1600 thereafter. Thats at max cruise thrust. We never have trips over 3 hours so we NEVER pull it back!

I don't know where the parts issues come up. We have never had any problems getting any of the parts we need, although we don't buy many parts.

Resale is down from what it was a couple of years ago, and I don't think they will go down much if at all over the next five years. As far as the Falcon 50 option, you have to buy an older airplane than what we have, with older equipment and higher total time to get within 2-3 million of what ours will sell for. Plus the 50 operating cost is much much higher. We are looking at around 1700-1800 and hour, a old 50 will be in the 2700-2800 range acording to our neighbors who have 2.

And yes ours is for sale. We have a new 2000 and the 20 is on the blocks.

Late model as they come, lowest total time you'll find. Has steam guages and dual GNS-XLS's.

Can be bought in the low to mid 6 mil range on MSP!

Daniel

 

[ultrarunner]

Falcon Jet currently has listed 3 of the latest model 20-BR planes out there. Serial #'s 430, 444 and 471. This puts them in the early to mid 80's vintage. Two of then are EFIS planes, and have asking prices of 6 mil. The other says 'make offer'.

As a previous reader mentioned. Grab the BCA reprint of the Falcon 20 retrofit article. I think it was the July issue. TONS of good info.

Inspection status, as with any plane, is really important here. You can run into huge bucks with gear inspections, etc... IF you proceed with the -20, hire someone that knows what they are doing and use that person for your search.

Also, IMO, you need to factor into the purchase price of ANY turbojet, the cost to comply with RVSM and TAWS. TCAS also, imo, but the first two are mandated, and you HAVE to do them.

As an interesting note, of the 4 Falcon 20 retrofitted plans listed on Falcon Jet's website (there is an older C model also) none are RVSM modified, according to their respective spec sheets. You really need to research the cost of this.

Garrett holds an RVSM STC for the Falcon 20, so that's a good place to start for pricing. Elliot Aviation and Duncan are also players in the RVSM market, and may also have solutions for the -20.

Good luck.

 

[Rick1128]

2000, The reliability on our 20 was reasonably good. Our biggest problem was hydraulics. Even after upgrades the system continued to have leaks. I have been told that this is not unusual for early Falcons. It has been over 5 years since I dealt with the aircraft, so I don't know if they found a solution to that issue. And I have flown Lears with over 20,000 hours. Flew fine. Maintenance was not a major issue. There were some unique problems due to the high total time. Lear does build a tough airplane. A local operator did RVSM on their 20 about two years ago. From what I was told it was not too big a problem and less expensive than what people are paying to do a G2. Last year they got a G3. One of the reasons they gave was that parts were starting to become a problem. That might have been a smoke screen, but just about every operator I have told to who operates older aircraft is saying pretty much the same thing.