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Falcon 10

LearjetGA

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Good Morning Everybody.

I have a couple of questions for Falcon 10 drivers.

How fast does it really goes. (i got overtaken by one in my Lear 35, and i was at .81) Mmo, Vmo.

What is the Fuel Flow ? (First Hour in flight,...)

Range ?

Direct Operating Costs, Parts availability ?

Can you operate it with a Lifeport ?

Is it better than a 35 if you want to fly it as a charter aircraft/Lifeguard.

Thanks, enjoy your WE.
LearjetGA
 

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I'm typed in both a Falcon 10 and Lear 35...

I thought the 35 was a better airplane... carried more, and had longer range... The Falcon 10 is a good short field aircraft, but I would still take a 35 over it... the fuel flows in the 35 are a tad less than the Falcon 10....

Falcon 10 Mmo is .87 but typical cruise is more like .82... The 35 typical cruise is .78 or if you want push it up to .80

Falcons are built like tanks... but the Lear is a good machine too...

I used to make Chicago to LAX non-stop 95% of the time... the Falcon 10 would be hard pressed to do it, if at all.
 

falcondriver

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I just started flying the 10. I flew 20's for the past 4 years. The 10 is fast but I would imagine the lear could fly farther. We usually cruise at .80 - .82
FD
 

ultrarunner

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LearjetGA said:

I have a couple of questions for Falcon 10 drivers.

How fast does it really goes. (i got overtaken by one in my Lear 35, and i was at .81) Mmo, Vmo.

What is the Fuel Flow ? (First Hour in flight,...)

Range ?

Direct Operating Costs, Parts availability ?

Can you operate it with a Lifeport ?

Is it better than a 35 if you want to fly it as a charter aircraft/Lifeguard.
LearjetGA


I been in the falcon 10 for about the last 7 years or so, and am currently in it again while on Furlough. I have only a few years in the 35a. I can answer most of your qestions.


The airplane typically blocks at 430 kts, and is a 1300 to 1400 nm plane no sweat. And at 350 and 370 it's typically .82 to .84 depending on weight and temp.

Westbound it is NOT a direct to 390 bird like the 35, and first hr. fuel is 1800. Second is 1500 and third is 1400. If you're eastbound, its a direct to 370, and the FF's are 100 lbs less, each hour, if you fly constant mach. It can be stepped to 390 and 410, but will not tolerate trying to cheat on the weights or isa to go higher. You'd need a REALLY light plane or be REALLY cold to get above 410. But can be stepped to 410 without any probs.

Unless it's isa + 10 and you're heavy, it's always a .82 airplane in cruise. It'll go .87 no problem at light weights or if you are lower, like at 330.

The 10 carries only 5900 on the fuel, and IIRC, the 35 is 6300 ish, and with the 35's ability to go at least the next flight level higher, and higher still when light, I always thought of the 35 as having a good hour more fuel than the 10.

I do the budget, and I can comment on the costs. Parts, in my experience, are not a problem. Plenty of third party vendors for pumps, valves, etc.... Every now and then you might need to get somthing from Dassault, and when I have, it's been there counter to counter if I've needed it. Sometimes a Dassault part can be pricey, but the plane doesn't break.

MSP, Fuel, Oil, and maintenance on our bird runs $985 per hour. And this is pretty much in line with other 10 operators I have talked with.

The plane can be configured for life guard/medivac missions. The previous operator of our plane had it configured in this manner. As for if the 10 is better than the 35 in this configuration, I would expect it would depend on your mission. If you need to go more than 1400 nm, then the 10's not for you in a medivac role. But for shorter trips, it's a good machine, and will handle shorter runways and contamination MUCH better than the 35.

For charter it's a good bird for up to 6 pax or so. Can get tight if you put 8 in the back, but you're not in it long. Day in and day out charter for 4 to 6 pax I'd choose the 10 because of the baggage situation. Four to six folks for a three day trip to Hilton Head with clubs would be hard in the 35.

The 10 has a baggage comparment behind the rear couch just like the 35, and is about the same size. Five hundred lb. limit. Ours also has the tailcone baggage mod that is quite large as well. Most 10's have this mod, and it's good for big bags as well as those clubs you'll get on charters.

The 35 can be a big claustiphobic because the tube is not that big around. The falcon is. Living space in both is about the same, as the 35 is longer.

I've flown both and for longer legs and getting above a bit more weather the 35 is the plane. If I had to be stuck in one or the other the rest of my life, I'd choose the Facon. Nicest plane I have ever flow...built like the Mirage fighters that preceeded it, and when you walk around it, you can tell. No Wichita plastic or pop rivets here....just huge hunks of metal and chemically milled skins. Airliner type systems. It's a hydraulic plane...non-reversalble flight controls, etc.... .87mmo, 370 kts vmo, and it'll do both! AND in level flight. And none of this crap with having to dispatch with two yaw damps, ect... you just have one, and it's not even required...

Anyway, you'd like the plane. Send me a PM if you need more specific info, etc...
 

P3-Adub

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DA-10 vs Lear 35 ?

I'll second ultrarunner's info. Who wants to sit in a Lear 35 for 4.5 hours anyway ? Nothing like having to try non-stop westcoast to east coast in that small cockpit ! The Falcon cockpit is very comfortable, roomy, and logically laid out. Unlike the Lear however, you will be planning a stop. Use to get a lot of steaks !

I once passed a 35 going from SFO to PSP, the Lear driver was adivised that he was being overtaken by faster traffic inbound by more than 50 KTS, he quickly asked what kind of plane it was ??? Not all that uncommon with all of the Citation 10 out there these days. If you are up and down the coasts as a norm, then the Falcon is great, cross continent the Lear is a better plane. DOC comparison ? Tough to beat the Lear 35. We budgeted around $1,100 an hour however that was a few years ago when fuel prices were a little more reasonable. I did not care for the way the Lear flew all that much other than it's climb ability. Nothing beats altitude in the midwest during the summer. The Falcon is really a sweetheart to fly and it is IMO one of the best looking light jets going. It was pretty cool until that darn Citation X came along ! I have flown 10s both with and without thrust reversers. Without thrust reversers gives you a little more payload capability, (200 lbs as I recall) and better climb/cruise performance. The aft baggage mod is well worth making it a must have if you are in the market for a Falcon, there are a couple versions and the one we had was pretty big, S/N 163. 4 sets of golf clubs and a few bags in the rear plus all of the room in the cabin baggage area. A lot of folks ask about the polished vs non-polished slats, Falcon Jet coats them with an anti-corrosion treatment that is a dull grey. If you see one that is polished you can bet that someone is doing a lot of elbow work on them, the looks are well worth it !

The Falcon 10 is a little under powered in my opinion 3230 lbs vs the Lear's 3500 lbs, however I have pulled power back at FL350 because I was bumping up to the .87 mach limit. It likes ISA or ISA-, if you go into the ISA + 10 range or so it slows all the way down to .80 or so in the mid 30s. I would flight plan mine at 480 KTS true day in and day out and I have seen over 500KTS true a few times down in the mid 20s thanks to the 370 KTS VMO. The Lear 35 trued out at around 440KTS as I recall.

They are a blast to fly, love that trailing link gear with the big brakes. No goofy steering either. The Falcon has a tiller ! I bet there are a few good deals out there these days ? Try and arrange a demo if you can.

Best of luck.
 

LJDRVR

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Neat info, I always wondered about the DA10. While I love the Lears, I will admit this: NO business jet out there has a prettier wing than the Falcon 10. (Maybe a G100)

Cheers!
 
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