Fair or Not?

[350DRIVER]

Just thought I would see what all you "experienced" guys thought. (especially avbug). I just got off the phone with a guy that I worked with while employed by Delta Airlines and he passed some bad news on to me about a "pink slip" that he got while on an observed ride today. (Houston fsdo) inspector was going to be onboard to give a local (HOU) DE authority to be able to do the rides in the cougar. The plane was a Cougar, 2 inspectors showed up, one immediately grounded the aircraft for different reasons while the other inspector conducted the oral portion. All went well until 2 questions were asked. 1) "You are approaching 75 kts and airspeed is decreasing but not yet at stall speed, what would you do at this point." I thought he hit the nail dead on the head until he told me what the FAA guy wanted to hear... How would you all answer this.?? Seems pretty straight forward to me or atleast it would appear that way. He did not want to hear anything about "recovery" or "power" since you are not at stall speed..

2) You are in IMC and have 2 passengers onboard. You are getting vectors for the ILS back into HOU, both pax have never been in an airplane like this before, what would you have them do to help you out.?


I got a kick out of what the FAA inspector wanted to hear... Also on the pink slip he stated that the inspector marked it as practical and not the oral portion. Is this the norm.?? Didn't seem to make much sense if he didn't even get to the airplane.





just curious what ya'll think to these two questions

3 5 0

 

[ms6073]

The plane was a Cougar, 2 inspectors showed up, one immediately grounded the aircraft for different reasons while the other inspector conducted the oral portion.

That is interesting - guess the ride was at Fletcher Aviation? That is the only place I am aware of in an around Houston that operates Gruman GA-7 Cougars, unless of course the flight actually originated from another city (Wright Flyers in San Antonio has/had some Cougars a few years ago). Maybe things have changed but I was under the impression that Fletcher was one of the only places in the US were Gruman owners could get parts since Fltecher was/is FAA authorized/approved to manufacture parts for the Gruman Cougar (PMA ?). I would think for that reason that their Cougar would be in reasonably good shape.

1) "You are approaching 75 kts and airspeed is decreasing but not yet at stall speed, what would you do at this point."

75 kts is below blue-line in the Cougar so unless this was just prior to rotation or touchdown, that is probably not a good place to be. Since a lot of questions in a multi-engine oral are concerned with aircraft performance in an engine-out environment, I think we probably need a little bit more of the background information leading up to the event in questions?

 

[Cardinal]

2) You are in IMC and have 2 passengers onboard. You are getting vectors for the ILS back into HOU, both pax have never been in an airplane like this before, what would you have them do to help you out.?

Sit down, shut up, and for heaven's sake don't touch anything! If they really impressed me as individuals I might ask one of 'em to speak up if he saw lights out the front window.

What did the inspector want to hear?

 

[350DRIVER]

That is interesting - guess the ride was at Fletcher Aviation? That is the only place I am aware of in an around Houston that operates Gruman GA-7 Cougars, unless of course the flight actually originated from another city (Wright Flyers in San Antonio has/had some Cougars a few years ago). Maybe things have changed but I was under the impression that Fletcher was one of the only places in the US were Gruman owners could get parts since Fltecher was/is FAA authorized/approved to manufacture parts for the Gruman Cougar (PMA ?). I would think for that reason that their Cougar would be in reasonably good shape.

The airplane was Fletcher's and it is my understanding that they only have this one so he had no opportunity to use another Cougar. I have never had a problem with any of there airplanes when I lived in HOU, I have however heard a few horror stories about how David got his certificates yanked and how the FAA came down on him when they spotted car parts in the inventory or in one of the aircraft.. I do not remember excactly word for word since this was quite a few years ago and I heard it from one of there former CFI's.. I personally thought they did a good job however and didn't feel that safety was ever compromised with regards to mx. That is why I was a little surprised when he said that the FAA inspector found multiple things wrong with the airplane.

75 kts is below blue-line in the Cougar so unless this was just prior to rotation or touchdown, that is probably not a good place to be. Since a lot of questions in a multi-engine oral are concerned with aircraft performance in an engine-out environment, I think we probably need a little bit more of the background information leading up to the event in questions?

Correct. That is what I mentioned to him is that I did not have enough background or information to answer the question. He told me "85" kts though instead of 75 (my fault). My answer was pretty much as most would speculate BUT the inspector and de applicant wanted to hear ONLY one thing. " Keep the Airplane coordinated and keep the ball centered"

Sit down, shut up, and for heaven's sake don't touch anything! If they really impressed me as individuals I might ask one of 'em to speak up if he saw lights out the front window.

That is what I would have said.. He answered by saying to look out window for lights in sight, runway in sight, etc, etc, and for close to 15 minutes the guy kept asking him "what else" what else"...? He wanted to hear him say that he would ask the pax to look at a specific instrument and want them to advise him if they noticed a sharp change. I think he specifically used changes volts... This suposebly is where he got pinked.. go figure.


3 5 0

 

[A Squared]

Was the applicant given a "notice of disaproval" or a "letter of Discontinuance" ?

A letter of discontinuance is issues if something beyond the applicant's control maks the checkride stop. Now, I don't know what happens if you show up with an airplane which is unaiworthy. Presumably that is not "beyond hte applicant's control" THe fact that the flight portion was noted on the paperwork suggests to me that the issue was the airplane, not a failure on the Oral portion. Dunno, we don't have much info to go on here.

Ditto the question about 75 knots, what exactly is happening here? You landing, taking off, climbing, on approach, single engine, or both engines?

INterested to hear nore and also what the examiner's opinion ofh te "correct answer"

 

[A Squared]

oops sorry for posting after you answered some of hte questions.

Jeeezus, please tell me that not thinking of tellig the passenger to watch the voltmeter isn't unacceptable demonstration of CRM !!! That's pretty screwed up. but then many feds are.


Ummm, so you just sit there with the airplane coordinated and watch your airspeed bleed off untill you stall? HUh? In this scenario do you have more power available or are you using all you got and airspeed is still decreasing?

Either we're not getting the full story about what went on, or this was one messed up deal.

 

[350DRIVER]

A Squared-

It was a letter of disaproval, unfortunately for him. He stated that on the pink slip he marked the "practical" box but if they didn't do the flight portion then why would the inspector mark "practical" for the bust versus the oral portion since that is what he busted on.?? Only thing I could come up with was maybee the inspector oK'ed the DE applicant to now be signed off to do check rides in the Cougar but apparently this was not the case. I did not think that it was your fault if the FAA would ground the airplane and you would choose to go on and do the oral, he was given this choice. He said that he questioned the linspector but was given no clear cut answer on why the "practical portion" was marked on the pink slip.

Ditto the question about 75 knots, what exactly is happening here? You landing, taking off, climbing, on approach, single engine, or both engines?

It was 85, I screwed that up..... Supposebly that is the only information that was given to him. I believe it was used as in a cruise scenario. And they wanted to hear only one answer.? KEEP the BALL centered and airplane coordinated. He kept asking "Can you re-phrase the question possibly in a different way." The response was " I gave you enough information and will not repeat it."

INterested to hear nore and also what the examiner's opinion ofh te "correct answer"

He has to go back with this inspector and DE applicant and I told him to ask more specifics after the ride is over so I am very anxious and curious to hear what the reasoning is on the answers.

3 5 0