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FAA wants professionalism

densoo

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yes
You know, if pilots were treated like professionals, maybe they'd act like it. Pilots will always be as safe as possible, but when you give us 8:45 block to block for "rest" (ha, who but the FAA would call that rest?), no meals, (what, hypoglycemia isn't a problem?) no pay protection, no rulemaking until after the accident has occurred (remember 9/11?--nutcases have been breaking into the cockpit since the 60s, morons), then maybe you'd get pilots acting a little more "professional." Hey, Babbitt, you're the one who allows 250-hour pilots to fly a 70-seat prop. You are responsible for the degradation of the profession. You're so much in the pocket of the ATA that Congress has to step in and make rules for you. Keep making self-righteous speeches right up until your take your money and run while those who bear the yoke of your outrageous "rules" keep plugging away.
WASHINGTON —The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis are part of a larger problem — eroding professionalism among commercial airline pilots, Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Randy Babbitt said today. Babbitt told an international aviation club that aviation is facing an “extreme need to refocus on professionalism.” He cited two examples: Northwest Flight 188, which overshot Minneapolis by 150 miles last month, and a regional airliner that crashed earlier this year near Buffalo, N.Y., killing 50 people.
The two Northwest pilots — Capt. Timothy Cheney, 53, of Gig Harbor, Wash., and First Officer, Richard Cole, 54, of Salem, Ore. — told the National Transportation Safety Board they lost track of time and place while working on crew scheduling on their laptops. Air traffic controllers and the airline's dispatchers were unable to communicate with the plane for 91 minutes, raising national security concerns.
In the Buffalo crash, testimony at an NTSB hearing in May indicated the pilots made a series of critical errors just before the plane experienced an aerodynamic stall and plunged to the ground.
A former airline pilot and pilots union president, Babbitt said that in both cases the pilots forgot their first job was to focus on flying the plane.
“I think that this is a sign of a much bigger problem,” Babbott said. “I can't regulate professionalism. With everything we know about human factors, there are still those who just ignore the common sense rules of safety.”
 
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OO pilot

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How about telling TSA to treat us like such. Maybe that sets the tone each day about how we are truly viewed.
Not to mention the FAA who is always there to "help" us professionals...
 

Dornier 335

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How about telling TSA to treat us like such. Maybe that sets the tone each day about how we are truly viewed.
Not to mention the FAA who is always there to "help" us professionals...

Let's get rid then of all those FAA farts that have previous violations on their flying record. I bet that would open up quite a bit of vacancies ...
 

ACL65PILOT

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They should expect compliance with the certificates in which they administer. That is their job.
A company should expect professionalism.
 

GogglesPisano

Pawn, in game of life
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enough
And professionals should have a reasonable expectation of not having their pay cut by half and their pensions stolen by executives who, while doing so, gave themselves raises to help with "retention."
 

Dornier 335

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I am afraid to ask, can we expect a response from APLA outlining our decline (loss of pay, pension etc.)? Easy for the feds to point the finger at us. All they care about is 3 or 4 pm Mon - Fri.
 

AA717driver

A simpler time...
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s.o.s.
 

nfkealey

Member
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I am afraid to ask, can we expect a response from APLA outlining our decline (loss of pay, pension etc.)? Easy for the feds to point the finger at us. All they care about is 3 or 4 pm Mon - Fri.


Exactly! What we need is a good PR blitz. ALPA needs to buy some ad time and get the word out. The general public has NO idea what our profession has devolved into. Sully had the floor for about five minutes, and while he made some good points, they were quickly swept under the rug.
 

Ty Webb

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Actually, the fact that we operate as safely as we do despite everything that has happened to this "career" IS a testament to our professionalism.

Maybe they should be looking at ways to improve our conditions so we can do even better, ie better pay, working conditions and time off . . . mandated by law.
 

luckytohaveajob

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Pilots who fly through thunderstorms, go below minimums, fail to deice when any contamination on the wings is present, carry write ups, exceed speed limits, pilots who are brow beaten by dispatchers, mx, chief pilots, union officials who think they are politicians first and pilot advocates second, pilots who choose to live in remote locations with a two hour drive and a two leg commute to a base are those who are causing the problems of professionalism.

Are you guilty? Look in the mirror.

And then there are the stupid pilots who grow goatees, carry backpacks, put stickers on their luggage, play devils advocate siding with management, wear leather jackets like they are some bomber pilot, color their hair, wear ear rings and tattoos. Those idiots are beyond professional because they don't even respect themselves much less the profession.
 
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SpauldingSmails

Aboard the sloop.
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Exactly! What we need is a good PR blitz. ALPA needs to buy some ad time and get the word out. The general public has NO idea what our profession has devolved into. Sully had the floor for about five minutes, and while he made some good points, they were quickly swept under the rug.


The general public doesn't give give a rat's pitoot about our profession, no PR blitz will change that. Those separated from the industry really have no comprehension of what our job and career entail. If we want change in our profession, we're going to have to do it for ourselves.

People aren't going to be at home saying, "I should write my congressman about those poor overworked pilots." Until a friend or family member is reduced to blood, teeth, hair and eyeballs spread over a quarter mile they could care less.
 

LowlyPropCapt

PBR For Life, and Beyond!
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And then there are the stupid pilots who grow goatees, carry backpacks, put stickers on their luggage, play devils advocate siding with management, wear leather jackets like they are some bomber pilot, color their hair, wear ear rings and tattoos. Those idiots are beyond professional because they don't even respect themselves much less the profession.

How exactly does a leather jacket (that is part of a uniform) and stickers (union ones) on your luggage detract from professionalism? I agree with some of what you said, but these are issues of personal taste and have little to do with professionally flying an airplane. Goatees? Who really cares? Many excellent pilots around the world are allowed facial hair to varying degrees. I would leave my beard intact in a second if the rules would permit such a thing.

Professionals efficiently and ethically go about their jobs. Professionals keep safety and customer service foremost in their minds. They do not break under management pressure to operate in a questionable manner. Professionals engage in constant study and self evaluation to improve their tradecraft. Professionals come to work on time, fit to fly and well groomed. Who gives a damn if the pilot has some ink on his skin underneath his shirt? Do you spend much time sans clothing with your first officers? Well, that is your affair I suppose.

Professionalism is a choice. Management can create conditions which can make being professional very difficult indeed, but it is still a choice. If you choose to act in a manner which demeans your chosen career, then you are hurting yourself and your fellow pilots as pilots themselves are the keepers of the professional tradition. Management doesn't really care about how you carry yourself out on the line, just so long as you fall within their guidelines just enough to not bend an airplane or cost them money. If we want to be considered professional, we ourselves have to the ones who create that image. You know, the vast majority of non aviation folks I come in contact with still are impressed with my position... And I am the low of the low, a poor regional turboprop captain. The great majority of this professionalism conversation comes from within our ranks or from our regulators, as it should be. We must be sure of our own institutional professionalism in order to garner further respect from management and the FAA.

I am not saying you aren't right about some of the things you said... You just are not defining what true professionalism consists of.
 

Raskal

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*sigh*
How exactly does a leather jacket (that is part of a uniform) and stickers (union ones) on your luggage detract from professionalism? I agree with some of what you said, but these are issues of personal taste and have little to do with professionally flying an airplane. Goatees? Who really cares? Many excellent pilots around the world are allowed facial hair to varying degrees. I would leave my beard intact in a second if the rules would permit such a thing.

Professionals efficiently and ethically go about their jobs. Professionals keep safety and customer service foremost in their minds. They do not break under management pressure to operate in a questionable manner. Professionals engage in constant study and self evaluation to improve their tradecraft. Professionals come to work on time, fit to fly and well groomed. Who gives a damn if the pilot has some ink on his skin underneath his shirt? Do you spend much time sans clothing with your first officers? Well, that is your affair I suppose.

Professionalism is a choice. Management can create conditions which can make being professional very difficult indeed, but it is still a choice. If you choose to act in a manner which demeans your chosen career, then you are hurting yourself and your fellow pilots as pilots themselves are the keepers of the professional tradition. Management doesn't really care about how you carry yourself out on the line, just so long as you fall within their guidelines just enough to not bend an airplane or cost them money. If we want to be considered professional, we ourselves have to the ones who create that image. You know, the vast majority of non aviation folks I come in contact with still are impressed with my position... And I am the low of the low, a poor regional turboprop captain. The great majority of this professionalism conversation comes from within our ranks or from our regulators, as it should be. We must be sure of our own institutional professionalism in order to garner further respect from management and the FAA.

I am not saying you aren't right about some of the things you said... You just are not defining what true professionalism consists of.

Alright, seriously. This is the second logical and well-written post I've read on this board in the last twenty minutes. You sir are part of the problem around here, ruining all that FI stands for! Stop it.

Really though, good post and well-said. Agreed.
 

get2flyin

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How exactly does a leather jacket (that is part of a uniform) and stickers (union ones) on your luggage detract from professionalism? I agree with some of what you said, but these are issues of personal taste and have little to do with professionally flying an airplane. Goatees? Who really cares? Many excellent pilots around the world are allowed facial hair to varying degrees. I would leave my beard intact in a second if the rules would permit such a thing.

Professionals efficiently and ethically go about their jobs. Professionals keep safety and customer service foremost in their minds. They do not break under management pressure to operate in a questionable manner. Professionals engage in constant study and self evaluation to improve their tradecraft. Professionals come to work on time, fit to fly and well groomed. Who gives a damn if the pilot has some ink on his skin underneath his shirt? Do you spend much time sans clothing with your first officers? Well, that is your affair I suppose.

Unfortunately, there are always individuals who want to see how far they can stretch the policy. A company leather jacket is a matter of preference and you don't get to choose the jacket. As long as things like that are consistent in appearance, there isn't an issue. As far as stickers on a bag...well "Proud Union Pilot" or something like that, nobody has an issue. However, guys that have a sticker that says, "I F***ed your sister last night" or something like that..that's the sort of thing that calls your professionalism into question. Same thing with hair or tattoos or whatever. Would I hire a lawyer with a piercing in his nose, a biker beard, and tattoos on his forehead? Probably not. Would I hire a guy who had a more "conformist" appearance but was rumored to have his entire back inked and his dick pierced? I could care less about what I can't see as long as he's good at his job. We operate behind closed doors. The public's level of respect is based upon our appearance and the perception of how good a job we do.

Professionalism is a choice. Management can create conditions which can make being professional very difficult indeed, but it is still a choice. If you choose to act in a manner which demeans your chosen career, then you are hurting yourself and your fellow pilots as pilots themselves are the keepers of the professional tradition. Management doesn't really care about how you carry yourself out on the line, just so long as you fall within their guidelines just enough to not bend an airplane or cost them money. If we want to be considered professional, we ourselves have to the ones who create that image. You know, the vast majority of non aviation folks I come in contact with still are impressed with my position... And I am the low of the low, a poor regional turboprop captain. The great majority of this professionalism conversation comes from within our ranks or from our regulators, as it should be. We must be sure of our own institutional professionalism in order to garner further respect from management and the FAA.

I agree with you entirely...except the "lowly" turboprop Captain. I actually think you have a more difficult time because of the incorrect perception that you are there because you don't have the experience to be at a major airline. If your appearance is the same as the guy (or girl) who just flew the plane from Europe to New York, who's to say flying a 1900 (or ATR, Dash, or whatever) makes you any different. The size of the gate area you walk into to? Screw that. I don't buy it. On the other hand, I did see an FO walking through DIA once who literally had the frosted tip hair, the Doc Martins, and a t-shirt clearly visible under his uniform shirt that said something like "Franky says Relax" or similar. WTF? How does THAT inspire confidence in a passenger...and he may have been the best stick in the company. I was about 2 steps behind in my blazer and hat....passengers were smiling at me, smiling and shaking their heads like they felt sorry for the kid in front of me...and I was also a turboprop FO as well at the time. I was embarrassed for both of us .
 

andyd

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ATPmin
Screw the FAA, they want professionalism then they can lead by example and fire the controller who killed 9 people in NYC by talking on their cell phone. How about revoking immediately the license's of those controllers involved in Flt 188 for not reporting an aircraft NORDO until it was nearly too late to do anything about it?

Any respect I had for the NTSB and the FAA and THEIR professionalism went out the door last week.
 

PurpleInMEM

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It's a job, that's all. The word 'professional' alludes to the fact that you get paid, that's about it.

Kind of like the National Felons League...same diff.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

Save the Profession
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Since we are talking about professionalism... (to anyone) how about posting your definiton of it....

For many professional pilots out there .... it is hard to quantify...
 

gearupflapsup

I don't want one!
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And then there are the stupid pilots who grow goatees, carry backpacks, put stickers on their luggage, play devils advocate siding with management, wear leather jackets like they are some bomber pilot, color their hair, wear ear rings and tattoos. Those idiots are beyond professional because they don't even respect themselves much less the profession.

Are you high right now?
 
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