FAA Simulation of CLT ATC runway incursion with PSA

[Volasl]

http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/videos/media/simulation.html

 

[COOPERVANE]

Wow. Great example of the need to listen up. The PSA crew no doubt thought it was the AC behind them cleared to taxi and hold. The pilatus didn't notice the same runway takeoff clearance for 18L and then didn't check for traffic.

 

[WSurf]

She blew it bad!

 

[1080P]

Damn Gina........ one of these days it's gonna happen

 

[SLUF4]

Was she in training? I hear there are lots of new controllers getting trained these days, so listen up out there!

 

[CX880]

the pilatus guy missed the taxiway he started the event. the female and male controllers were not paying attention

 

[Flyin2low]

Wow. Great example of the need to listen up. The PSA crew no doubt thought it was the AC behind them cleared to taxi and hold. The pilatus didn't notice the same runway takeoff clearance for 18L and then didn't check for traffic.

The aircraft behind (adjacent to) them was an Mesa 900. Both crews failed at situational awareness. The PSA crew operates at CLT day in and out. They should have been aware of the Pilatus' position as he was cleared for takeoff. The pilot of the Pilatus should have been aware of an aircraft just cleared for takeoff from the same runway and should have been looking for it. The PSA crew probably was not listening to ATC because they were calling out important checklist items such as CAS..... Clear....Anti Ice.......Cowls...OFF.. Wings ...OFF....Ignition.. OFF, Did we put the wings on for 2 min yet?

 

[kf4amu]

Don't forget theres a slight rise in runway 18L until you cross 23, then it slopes down a bit. Sitting so low to the ground in a RJ, the crew may not have been able to see the Pilatus.

 

[Abernathy]

Both crews failed at situational awareness. The PSA crew operates at CLT day in and out. They should have been aware of the Pilatus' position as he was cleared for takeoff.

Easy there, tiger. I can't for the life of me pin even an ounce of blame on the PSA crew. Given the circumstances, the Captain did a fantastic job in responding quickly enough and just as importantly, swerving effectively. 0 damage to the airplane, and by 10 feet.

In my eyes, of the two, only the Pilatus could be reasonably expected to have been able to prevent this. He was given an intersection position and hold right after the PSA was cleared for takeoff (should have been paying attention), and on top of that, from what it looks like, he did not "clear right" before taking the runway.

How is the PSA crew supposed to know that the other aircraft being given a "position and hold" wasn't at the starting point behind them? I think you're expecting way too much from anybody. The only thing you can blame the PSA crew for is failing to adequately perform the Tower Controller's job.

 

[j41driver]

I'd say the controller started the event by thinking the PC12 was full length. Next obviously was the pilot by not questioning the lack of intersection clearance.

Narrative said that the ASDE-X had the CRJ going 227 ft/sec (134 kts...thanks Google!) at the 18L/23 intersection (less than 500' from Alpha) when the PC12 pulled on the runway. I'd say they did a pretty decent job considering they were going that fast when the guy pulled out in front of them.

 

[Metro752]

Wow. Great example of the need to listen up. The PSA crew no doubt thought it was the AC behind them cleared to taxi and hold. The pilatus didn't notice the same runway takeoff clearance for 18L and then didn't check for traffic.

Wrong.

The aircraft behind (adjacent to) them was an Mesa 900. Both crews failed at situational awareness. The PSA crew operates at CLT day in and out. They should have been aware of the Pilatus' position as he was cleared for takeoff. The pilot of the Pilatus should have been aware of an aircraft just cleared for takeoff from the same runway and should have been looking for it. The PSA crew probably was not listening to ATC because they were calling out important checklist items such as CAS..... Clear....Anti Ice.......Cowls...OFF.. Wings ...OFF....Ignition.. OFF, Did we put the wings on for 2 min yet?

The PSA crew was already taking off when the Pilatus was told to enter the runway from what I have been told, and from what I can see. They saved the day.

Easy there, tiger. I can't for the life of me pin even an ounce of blame on the PSA crew. Given the circumstances, the Captain did a fantastic job in responding quickly enough and just as importantly, swerving effectively. 0 damage to the airplane, and by 10 feet.

In my eyes, of the two, only the Pilatus could be reasonably expected to have been able to prevent this. He was given an intersection position and hold right after the PSA was cleared for takeoff (should have been paying attention), and on top of that, from what it looks like, he did not "clear right" before taking the runway.

How is the PSA crew supposed to know that the other aircraft being given a "position and hold" wasn't at the starting point behind them? I think you're expecting way too much from anybody. The only thing you can blame the PSA crew for is failing to adequately perform the Tower Controller's job.

What Abernathy said.

 

[crj567]

The aircraft behind (adjacent to) them was an Mesa 900. Both crews failed at situational awareness. The PSA crew operates at CLT day in and out. They should have been aware of the Pilatus' position as he was cleared for takeoff. The pilot of the Pilatus should have been aware of an aircraft just cleared for takeoff from the same runway and should have been looking for it. The PSA crew probably was not listening to ATC because they were calling out important checklist items such as CAS..... Clear....Anti Ice.......Cowls...OFF.. Wings ...OFF....Ignition.. OFF, Did we put the wings on for 2 min yet?

VERY GOOD POINT!!

In addition, some airlines have people checking fuel, verifying runway heading, setting lights, etc, etc.... It is crazy how everytime a new checklist comes out, we are getting more and more stuff piled on us at this very critical phase of flight.

-They really do need to dial back on the busywork anytime we are entering a runway-it is totally out of hand!

 

[WSurf]

VERY GOOD POINT!!

In addition, some airlines have people checking fuel, veryfying runway heading, setting lights, etc, etc.... It is crazy how everytime a new checklist comes out, we are getting more and more stuff piled on us at this very critical phase of flight.

-They reaslly do need to dial back on the busywork anytime we are entering a runway-it it totally out of hand!

Totally agree! When taking the runway there's only on thing the crew should be thinking about. And thats "Flying"! Amazing sometimes that I see my FO's head buried in a Checklist when we are trying to find our way around the airport.
Anyway...... Good Point..

 

[samballs]

Keep them in the kitchen. The pilatus pilots are just as much to blame as the cook, I mean controller

 

[samballs]

Maybe babbit can write another piece alpa mag stating how pilots need to be more professional. He needs to look at his own agency and how crap of a job they do

 

[CX880]

Keep them in the kitchen. The pilatus pilots are just as much to blame as the cook, I mean controller

The male ground had the chance to catch the pilatues mistake when he went past his assigned taxiway but he did not, handing off the accident to the tower controller.

 

[Abernathy]

The male ground had the chance to catch the pilatues mistake when he went past his assigned taxiway but he did not, handing off the accident to the tower controller.

I don't see how any of that is a factor. The tower controllers cleared an aircraft for takeoff at one end of the runway while clearing another airplane for an intersection position and hold. Even if he missed the taxiway, he was still cleared into position at an intersection. And he was supposed to be at an intersection for takeoff to begin with.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Sarasota, FL, March 9, 2000. Pilatus crew obviously never read this report.

 

[IBNAV8R]

the pilatus guy missed the taxiway he started the event. the female and male controllers were not paying attention

The Pilatus exactly did exactly as he was told. Clearly, the controller(s) screwed up. Still, there were several people that COULD have caught this. Thankfully, no one was hurt.

 

[JumpersAway]

With the slope of the runway, the low profile of the -200, and the opposing angle the Pilatus entered the runway at, it's no suprise to me that neither party saw each other.

The pilatus pilot may have cleared right, but with the angle he was at, probably saw nothing but a few feet of runway off his right shoulder- seeing mostly the right seat and sidewall beside him.............

Absolutely not the crews fault in any way, shape, or form- clearly controller error, in my opinion. Kudos to the PSA Captain for the well executed evasive maneuver. I'm curious how much time he and the F/O got off after that to settle down: )

 

[hspjmr]

Quit acting like children and quit playing the blaming game (he said, she said, it's his fault, it's her fault...). The whole point behind the simulation is not to blame people for their mistakes. Instead it's meant for us to learn from their mistakes. This could have happen to anyone. Be a professional and learn from the mistakes made in this simulation.

Fly Safe

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Quit acting like children and quit playing the blaming game (he said, she said, it's his fault, it's her fault...). The whole point behind the simulation is not to blame people for their mistakes. Instead it's meant for us to learn from their mistakes. This could have happen to anyone. Be a professional and learn from the mistakes made in this simulation.

Fly Safe

Exactly.

 

[Flyin2low]

I'm curious how much time he and the F/O got off after that to settle down: )

PSA gave them -no- time off. They taxied back and took off.

Later when the FSDO wanted to present them with an award, PSA cut their overnite short and deadheaded them out after 8 hours rest. Then they had to re-join their trip.

PSA is such a great company uke:

 

[Moustache]

the pilatus guy missed the taxiway he started the event. the female and male controllers were not paying attention

No he didn't......he waqs told to taxi and hold short of 18l at A

 

[Moustache]

Quit acting like children and quit playing the blaming game (he said, she said, it's his fault, it's her fault...). The whole point behind the simulation is not to blame people for their mistakes. Instead it's meant for us to learn from their mistakes. This could have happen to anyone. Be a professional and learn from the mistakes made in this simulation.

Fly Safe

A true liberal........blame situations, not people.....personal responsibility is dead in this country!!!

 

[hspjmr]

A true liberal........blame situations, not people.....personal responsibility is dead in this country!!!

Wait, are we in high school here? What does this have to do with politics?:laugh: Did the FAA make the simulation to point out who was personally responsibile? I don't think so. The FAA made this as a learning tool. If all you can get out of this simulation is a person or a group of people to blame, than I'm sorry for you. Also, I hope I never have to fly with you and I hope you don't fly for my airline.

Once again, be a professional and learn from this. Use the simulation to make yourself a better pilot. Otherwise, what's the point?

Fly Safe

 

[bailout]

No he didn't......he waqs told to taxi and hold short of 18l at A

Uh, thats exactly what he did.. WTF are u talking about?

 

[XJdriver]

From AIM,
​

4-3-10. Intersection Takeoffs​

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​

​

​

​

​

c. Pilots should state their position on the airport
when calling the tower for takeoff from a runway
intersection.​

EXAMPLE​

​

​

​

​

Cleveland
Tower, Apache Three Seven Two Two Papa, at
the intersection of taxiway Oscar and runway two three​

right, ready for departure.


Tower should state what intersection you are at when they give a position and hold or take-off instruction. The pilot should also say what intersection they are departing from.

If either the tower or the intersection aircraft would have followed procedures someone would have thought (oh sh**) there is a problem here.

The link in the chain of events should have been broken much earlier. I am just glad no one was hurt.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Wait, are we in high school here? What does this have to do with politics?:laugh: Did the FAA make the simulation to point out who was personally responsibile? I don't think so. The FAA made this as a learning tool. If all you can get out of this simulation is a person or a group of people to blame, than I'm sorry for you. Also, I hope I never have to fly with you and I hope you don't fly for my airline.

Once again, be a professional and learn from this. Use the simulation to make yourself a better pilot. Otherwise, what's the point?

Fly Safe

Ding ding ding. We haaaave a winnah!

 

[BoilerUP]

All pilots can use this as a glaring example of why its important to PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around you at all times, especially when you're doing an intersection departure from a busy airline hub.