FAA Ramp Checks!

[Pilotadjuster]

part 91 ramp checks

Yes they can ramp check part 91 ops. Got ramp checked as a student right after a solo flight. Checked my medical and log book endorsements and sent me on my way. Very cordial. however, the same inspector grounded every a/c at the fbo that day. Mine was grounded after my flight because the Hobbs (definitely non-required equipment...) meter was inop and not placarded as such....

 

[avbug]

Pilotadjuster,

Required equipment has nothing to do with it. If it's installed, it had better work, or be properly altered in a manner acceptable to the administrator.

From a practical point of view, I've seen some innocuous things wreak havoc on board an aircraft. I've seen installed DC receptacles ("cigarette lighter receptacles") catch aircraft on fire and cause cockpit fires twice. That something is inoperative may only mean it's going to ground some place else (bad grounds account for about 90% of the electrical problems you'll encounter), and this might be all that's required for a fire or other problem. Even little things need to be addressed, and it's not picking nits. In aviation, keeping the cockpit vacumed and free of even dust specs is important, let alone allowing something to occur when the true cause isn't known, and dealt with.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

equipment

Avbug--point well taken. I was under the opinion that meter was not on the required VFR or IFR list and therefore not a grounding item, but I definitely get your point. Of course, from my personal point of view, I was much happier paying for time based upon the tach rather than Hobbs...

Unfortunately, all the FBO did was put an "inop" label over the instrument until it was replaced. No check of anything else, as I know the a/c was flying very soon thereafter. Of course I don't rent a/c from that place any more either.

 

[Freight Dog]

I was never ramp checked flying Part 91. However, flying Part 135, I was ramped 4 times, and flying Part 121, I was ramp checked twice, and had a fed on the jumpseat twice. Basically showed him the license and medical, give him the flight number info, and that was it. Nothing to it... as for "giving" him your license... don't worry.. they'll just write down the info and give them back to ya.

 

[414Flyer]

Yeah if you see an someone walking around an aircraft, in a white shirt and with a clipboard, good chance its an FAA person

I have had two, one in Hawaii and one in Duluth MN, both when doing 135.

One the first one, he just asked for my license and medical, sat in the right seat as I taxied to the fuel pumps and back. But he did ground the airplane when one of the fuel guages was sticking.

The second was your average ramp check, looked over my license, medical and aircraft documents.

Both were professional, however I still think it is best to avoid them when you can.

But for the earlier guys, I found it strange that an FAA guy would give you a ramp check while in a lobby, or in a hangar.

As for overreaching inspectors, at the Fargo FSDO, one inspector had filed a violation on another inspector there in 2000 or 99 I think

 

[TurboS7]

Even the worst of ramp checks can only result in a bunch of LOA's in your mail box. Unless you happen to be carrying some white stuff then it is a diffrent issue,,, sorry I live in South Florida.

 

[TurboS7]

I have to stop getting on this board at night after a trip, let's try LOI's.(letter of investigation)LOA=(letter of authorization)

 

[A1FlyBoy]

Hey TurboS7,

Are you based at MIA? Where in FL do you live?

 

[TurboS7]

I live in Margate,Florida about 2 miles from FXE.

 

[throttlejockey]

Got ramped 2 times:

Once under 91 on an overcast fall Chicago day. I had an IFR on File from PWK to YIP and the inspector was in the tower when I landed. Waiting for PAX he strolled on over and told me I better think twice about going to YIP because of forecasted Icing.

I was cordial, and he responded back to me cordially. The pax I was picking up happened to be a lawyer and a pilot friend of mine!

I got myself out of the conversation and let my buddy do the talking for me. He argued that forecasted icing was not the same as known icing and that if we knew where the ice was we would surely avoid that area. At that time an old Sabre 40 was loading pax on Priesters Ramp. Sabre 40s are not approved for known icing (The wings aren't heated).

My buddy politely asked the inspector if he intended on ramp-check the Sabre, since they weren't approved for known icing either. The inspector said no. Then my buddy said "do you think we should cancel this trip today?" I said "yes" I called FSS and cancelled my flight plan.

Never got another call or letter about that deal.

Another Time, under Part 121 I was ramp checked as an F/O. The inspector asked just the Captains papers not mine. He apparently was there watching us the whole time because he was bitching to the Captain about not being appropriately fueled, and all sorts of other stuff that just isn't under our control (121's have fueling and ground service manuals that we never are trained on nor get a chance to even see).

We'll while boarding one of the PAX notices that a CAMLOC was loose and told the Captain. We'll seeing that the FAA Inspector was there, the Capt. wasn't going to touch the airplane. We had to call MX Control to have a contract mechanic come out a tighten a CAMLOC. Cost the company $100 call-out fee, and 45 minutes delay to tighten a CAMLOC! Would have tightened it myself if the Fed wasn't there!

Funny thing is, we check the oil on the aircraft each day on our own. The oil cap is located behind a oil service door that has... you guessed it.... two CAMLOC's to secure the oil filler door. What gives!

throttlejockey

 

[avbug]

The sabreliner doesn't need heat, and yes, it's approved for ice. Been it many times in a sabreliner, and it handles the ice better than most. It's one of the only aircraft in it's class without heated wings (or boots) that is approved for known ice.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I have never been ramped checked (knock on wood) but I know I will soon. My story is of a friend that got ramp checked in Denver.

He worked for a hotel as a night clerk part time while he was getting his CFI. He was already a Commercial pilot. The owner of the hotel also owned a small single, I can't remember what though. Doesn't matter. Any how, the owner asked my friend to fly him to Denver and he did. Obviously it was part 91 because the airplane was owned by the passenger. After the Hotel owner had finished his business in Denver and the two of them where ready to leave, an unannounced FAA

 

[ksu_aviator]

I have never been ramped checked (knock on wood) but I know I will soon. My story is of a friend that got ramp checked/entrapped in Denver.

He worked for a hotel as a night clerk part time while he was getting his CFI. He was already a Commercial pilot. The owner of the hotel also owned a small single, I can't remember what though. Doesn't matter. Any how, the owner asked my friend to fly him to Denver and he did. Obviously it was part 91 because the airplane was owned by the passenger. After the Hotel owner had finished his business in Denver and the two of them where ready to leave, an unidentified FAA inspecter approached them. His story was that his wife was sick in Wyoming and he needed to get to her right away. He would pay their expenses if they would just take him there. Well my friend did the right thing and said no. Even though the Hotel Owner and Inspector where both pressuring him to do it. Finally my friend put his foot down and said the regs don't let him do that kind of flight. That is when the examiner identified himself and complimented my friend on making the right decision.

In my opinion, that is entrapment, but the FAA doesn't see it that way.

 

[ksu_aviator]

sorry about the double post, I'm not really sure how that happened

 

[avbug]

It's not entrapment. I don't like it when the FAA does this; I don't find it particularly ethical. However, administrative law is the game, not criminal law. There is no miranda. FAA inspectors are not law enforcement officers and not cops. You don't have the same rights you might expect under criminal law, or under that process of law.

The context of your description almost sounds like an inspector who really did want to get to Wyoming, and congratulated the pilot as a way of backing out when the pilot wouldn't go for it. That's also possible, albeit hopefully unlikely.

Inspectors and security agents are routinely sent undercover on airfields to purposely breach security. Teams travel around the country wandering on ramps, waiting to see if people question their identy or call security. Failure of any badged individual to do so can net a fine into the thousands of dollars. It happens every day; a mechanic or lineman can get caught just as easily as a pilot.

Your friend did well.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I realize that administrative law does not abide by the same rules as criminal law, but that doesn't make it right. I harp on this all the time, but administrative law falls under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. That has been interperted to imply that civil rights are not applicable. I don't believe that too be true. While the Commerce Clause gives Congress the ability to regulate commerce, it does not give them a free for all pass to destroy and disregard our rights. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[LR25]

I got ramped when I was flying a BE-18 one time Part 135(freight).

Here I am doing my preflight and this guy walks up and proceeds to tell me he is here to do an inspection.

I said OK, he asks for my credentials and airplane paperwork, all the while theres a ton of oil all over the airplane, inspection covers hanging by 2 screws, you know the drill. Well when we get to the airplane looksy I think he's going to gig me for the "appearence of the airplane", he looks around and we just start talking on how great a twin Beech is and so an so forth.

He gives me my papers back and he went on his way.

I think the fact that it was a BE-18 might have had something to do with it being such an easy experience.

 

[A Squared]

KSU,

>>>>I don't believe that too (sic) be true.

It really doesn't matter what you believe, what matters is what the courts believe. Like it or not, the FAA deals in administrative law, and like it or not, in administrative law, constitutional rights are not applicable.

Example: A police officer may not just stroll into your house and have a look around to see if there's any evidence of illegal activity. He has to have a warrant executed by a judge. But let's suppose you own a building which you operate a business out of. Occupational Safety is administrative law, and an OSHA inspector may in fact inspect your property for safety or health violations without probable cause or a warrant.

Likewise a police officer may not fine you for something like disturbing the peace, under our constitution such a penalty cannot be assesed without due process. (you may however waive your right to a court hearing and pay a fine based on your choice not to contest) By contrast, if the OSHA inspector finds a safety violation at your bussiness, you may indeed be fined without due process. Administrative law is indeed a very different animal, and the constitution is not necessarily applicable.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your answers to my quiz, and for you to tell us where Part 91 calls for Operations Specifications for Part 91 operators.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2162&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Regards

 

[TurboS7]

LR25 where were you flying the BE-18???