FAA ramp check, reverse extrapolation???

[jetdriven]

when I flew 135 as soon as I landed all paperwork went into the trash. right before I hit the exit door at the FBO.

 

[avbug]

If you were flying 135, the weight and balance paperwork had better not have hit the trash...if you were required to keep records and do weight and balance, your company has record keeping obligations for 30 days on the load manifest.


If you're talking Part 91 operations, you should use actual weights. Certain Part 135, and most 121, use standard weights. However, Leadsled already detailed in fine the particulars for using actual weights, and being accurate with actual weights.

We took a load out of Monterey, Mexico once. It was our first load after arriving, and we took the load on by quantity. Very easy to figure and know performance because we always take exactly the same amount of liquid. Unbeknownst to us, the local yokels on the ground didn't mix at 9 lbs to the gallon, but at somewhere between twelve and forteen pounds to the gallon. We found that out right after rotation when the telephone poles were slipping by even closer than usual. Even in a larger airplane, it adds up fast. In a small airplane...how far can you fly in ground effect? How does your airpane fly with the CG outside the envelope?

Don't be the first kid on your block to find out.

 

[PropsForward]

If you were flying 135, the weight and balance paperwork had better not have hit the trash...if you were required to keep records and do weight and balance, your company has record keeping obligations for 30 days on the load manifest.

Only for Multiengine. Single engine has no record keeping obligations, trash it asap, no need to hang yourself.

 

[KigAir]

Unbeknownst to us, the local yokels on the ground didn't mix at 9 lbs to the gallon, but at somewhere between twelve and forteen pounds to the gallon.

What was being mixed?

 

[FlyJordan]

I have been ramped checked twice, both time at KLOU, once in a big ole Cessna 150 and we where like 35 lbs over but the inspector never said anything about it, I guess he knew too that there is hardly anyway to fly a 150 with 2 people under gross. The other time was in a Diamond Star, I again was like 30 lbs over gross, but I had not done a weight and balance, I knew I was within CG from previous trips so there was no point, he asked if I had a done a weight and balance, I said no, he said are you sure you are within CG I said yes, he said well I could make you figure a CG right now but I will take your word for it. Guess I lucked out, he never did add up out weight so he never knew I was over gross. I did know how heavy we where just not to the MM where out CG was. (Diamond Aircraft POH and Weight and Balance are all in Metric, I HATE THAT SO MUCH!!! Wouldnt be so bad except I'm so used to inches and pounds, not meters and kilograms). One other thing, I'm not going to tell anyone to not figure a CG like I do. I just feel that after you have done 100's of them and nothing hardly ever changes, you can look at the chart and see that you would have to put another airplane in the back seat before the CG would be out, thats its not something you have to do. If or when you do get ramp checked its kinda handy not to have done a weight and balance b/c if you where over gross you can slant the one you have to do in front of them in your favor. Little corrections will get the job done, unless your way out, and then you do need to be taought a less by the FAA. But dont go not figuring your CG's just cause someone else does not. Most of the time aircraft will fly ok outside of CG, just like many will fly just fine up to 10% over gross, but that still does not mean its safe or a good practice. Most of the time you would absolutly have to be an idiot to get an aircraft so far out of center that you could not control it. Over loading on the other hand is very easy and tempting, you have to watch out about it. I only over gross an aircraft with the understanding that for every extra pound that I add I'm shorting my glide distance in single or reducing my abality to climb with just one fan turning on a twin. If I run an aircraft at gross for a few flights and get a good feel for it then I usually have no problem going 30 or 40lbs over for a single, but for a twin you really have to watch your weight limit, its there for a reason. They perform crappy enough under gross on one engine, if you have a twin over gross and you loose and engine you need to be looking for a close spot to land. Fly safley

 

[FN FAL]

I only over gross an aircraft with the understanding that for every extra pound that I add I'm shorting my glide distance in single

REALLY?

 

[dingo222]

ramp check

Just ask him for some sort of official ID before you start asking questions! THrow him the whole "TSA-Homeland security" line. I did it once and the guy had to go back to his car to get it At that point, I made my way to run-up and was on my way. No bull story there, but I sweated all the way back home hoping that he didn't catch the tail #. A better though, just keep it undergross!

 

[JonJohn82]

What do the "ramp checkers" look at and ask for when one gets "ramp checked"?

 

[Lead Sled]

...Most of the time aircraft will fly ok outside of CG, just like many will fly just fine up to 10% over gross...I only over gross an aircraft with the understanding that for every extra pound that I add I'm shorting my glide distance in single or reducing my abality to climb with just one fan turning on a twin...If I run an aircraft at gross for a few flights and get a good feel for it then I usually have no problem going 30 or 40lbs over for a single, but for a twin you really have to watch your weight limit, its there for a reason. They perform crappy enough under gross on one engine, if you have a twin over gross and you loose and engine you need to be looking for a close spot to land. Fly safley

Thank you FlyJordan for sharing the wisdom and gained from your vast (less than 200 hours) experience. If I sound sarcastic, I am. I'll be the first to admit that running 30 or 40 lbs over on a light single won't cause it to fall out of the sky... However, when you start down that path you're really starting to walk in a mine field if you know what I mean. Not all aircraft have loading and flight characteristics as benign as the trainers you've been flying.

"Sled

 

[minitour]

What do the "ramp checkers" look at and ask for when one gets "ramp checked"?

Whatever they want.

Certificates and documents, weight and balance perhaps, maybe takeoff and landing field lengths (I doubt it), the bigger the equipment, the more there is to see...MELs, Manuals, D-Cell Battery flash lights, fire extinguishers...

If they want to be a pr*ck about it, I'm sure they could ask to see anything they want...but they have more important things to do with their time than to harass everyone on the ramp for 20 minutes per plane...so I'm told

-mini