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FAA pulled my medical .... I'm done.

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Snakum

How's your marmott?
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
2,090
I posted a couple weeks ago about the AME red-flagging my packet with the Atlanta office after I came in with a blank 8500 (I walked out of the first AME's office when I was still waiting after three hours, and I had it in my hand), after which I had to send a written statement about my two misdemeanor convictions to the FAA. They wanted certified court records initially, but no records exist past 1999 (the incidents, a paraphranalia charge and a trespassing were in 93 and 98 respectively), so they said a written statement would suffice. I guess because I had a tightly controlled federal form in my possession, and had been in trouble with the law years ago, they wanted to be sure I wasn't a looney. Some people who know me might say that ain't a bad idea. :D

So I sent it all in, and called OK and ATL daily and sent more stuff in ... whatever thay asked for. Following my fourth conversation with the Regional Surgeon in ATL they finally issued my medical. All OK so far.

Today, an FAA investigator called to tell me the following:

*He is conducting a full federal background investigation on me
*I must have certified court documents from the two counties where the offenses occured sent to his office
*I was supposed to have listed ALL incidents, including TRAFFIC TICKETS on the 8500, despite the fact that I read to him from an 8500 I have on my corkboard that section 18, letter w. states NONTRAFFIC CONVICTION(S)!!!!!!!
*And after I've done everything just like they want it (despite the fact that I can't ... no records exist), the surgeon in OK may, or may not, allow me to hold a Second Class Medical.
*If they do allow me to have a Second Class medical, because I have a paraphranalia charge from 12 years ago, I may be subject to random urinalysis and hair folicle testing for illegal drugs for as long as I hold a license. That's no exaggeration ... that's exactly what he said.

I don't know what kind of stink Dr. Hopper in GSO raised about me having that blank 8500-8 form, but it's not a stink I'm going to be able to wash off, evidently.

Soooooo ... thanks to all who've made it such an enjoyable place to hang out since 2000, and all those who've helped out in so many ways (you know who you are). Take care guys ... and fly safe!

Thich Minh Thong
 
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Call AOPA legal! AOPA Website

Sounds like an FAA with more important things to worry about! Good luck!

2000Flyer
 
What a crock of $hit! I would consult an aviation attorney if I were you, Minh. That just plain sucks! If there ever was a time to hate the bureaucracy...

SK:mad:
 
Vladimir Lenin said:
get a lawyer
it'll pass
there are pilots who were caught drinking on the job still flying
Vlad, I thought part of the plea-bargain was for you not to mention that in a public forum...? ;)
 
Hopper is an a$$. Went to him for my first medical/student pilot certificate. Never been back. What a jerk.

Call AOPA legal or otherwise get an attorney. A full federal background investigation is stupid.

Good luck Mihn...
 
Is this the same doctor that you saw getting hammered nightly at the local bar? For the sake of his patients, you might want to file a report to let the medical board know that he might be a drunk... Alcohol and a medical practice don't go together very well..
 
As someone who is going to do aviation law in a couple of weeks, CALL AOPA LEGAL, or an attorney on the referral list. THERE IS NO WAY THAT A LOT OF THAT STUFF CAN FLY....
 
Ugh... Now I don't want to re-schedule my new medical anytime soon...
 
Sad occaision to make my first post here on flightinfo. As the others have said, consult a lawyer who specializes in aviation. It looks like they are trying to make an example out of you.

To the rest of us, keep your noses clean. You now know what can happen.

'80
 
Snakum- Don't lose hope; as you now know, the FAA is known for occasional bursts of poor judgement and oversight. Let the system work, and if you are in the right, you will prevail. Good luck!



Super80 said:
Sad occaision to make my first post here on flightinfo. As the others have said, consult a lawyer who specializes in aviation. It looks like they are trying to make an example out of you.

To the rest of us, keep your noses clean. You now know what can happen.

'80
Super80,

Welcome aboard! Plenty of good information is available here.
You may want to change the handle, though. You've taken the name of one of our vociferous regulars!
 
OK, this just ain't gonna work.

How can there be a Super80 AND a Super 80?!?!?!

Only a space between them? This is gonna get confusing....


(If he hadn't said "my first post" I might not have noticed. OH, OK, I did notice the missing Phantom, but folks change AVATARs all the time.)


Grrrrrrrrrr
 
You mean I can actually change it? That other website won't let me!---

But then again I could just create a new account...
 
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Sorry to hear it Snakum. You'll pull through, there's some jerks in all walks of like, the FAA is no exception.
 
I talked to the FAA Agent again this morning, after talking to everyone I know who might shed some light on this last night. I asked a whole bunch of questions of him to clarify exactly what's going on, and I'm still concerned that I may jump thru yet another set of hoops only to lose out regardless.

Evidently, the flap over the 8500-5 form triggered a review of my file in OK, and when they saw that I had been listing the two misdemeanor convictions since my first medical in 1996, yet there was no factual/court documentation to back it up, they initiated a full federal background check. So, I have to drive to all the counties where this stuff happened and get a certified, sealed printout of the info from the computer and send it to the agent. What's weird is that they have already pulled my local, state, and federal criminal history and they've seen that everything is EXACTLY as I listed and that I have never had a DWI/DUI nor have I ever had a felony conviction. I even listed an arrest that was PJC'd They want the certified printout anyway. Even better, this Agent is telling me that I should have listed EVERY TRAFFIC CITATION I HAVE EVER HAD, despite the fact that the form 8500-5 clearly asks for "History of non-traffic convictions" and convictions resulting in revocation of license. It asks NOTHING about traffic citations that did not involve revocation. The fact that he is adamant about the FAA requiring applicants to list traffic citations, despite my reading the form to him over the phone, worries me to no end. He also now wants a full state DMV printout certified and sent.

So, I'm going to drive all over the state and get the godd@mn information for him, and I'll go take a pee-pee test anytime he wants (I have not drank alcohol in ANY form nor ingested recreational drugs since August 1993), but I'm just not going to jump thru many more hoops after this. I don't have the money for an aviation attorney, and if I am going to have to fight the FAA in court, I'll wait until the new Sport Pilot rules are finalized and fight that one, where I'd probably have a better chance. Next Summer, I'll have the financial resources to go toe-to-toe with these f@cks, and I'll also be in a position to start looking for a Cub or Taylorcraft. :)

Minh
 
Get some outside help. Dealing with FAA is the same as dealing with the IRS. After these hoops, there will be more. Let me say it again. Get some outside help!
 
You ain't lyin' there'll be more hoops. Today I got a little info from others who have been thru it about what, exactly, the next set of hoops (this will be the third set of 'em :( ) might be. After I take a full day off work next week and get this guy all his certified and sealed paperwork and send it to Atlanta, the FAA Aeromed office will most likely then require me to get letters from five people in positions of authority who know me and will testify that I have never been under the influence of drugs nor alcohol in their presence, and attest to my general character. And then I will more than likely be required to see a Psychiatrist (an MD) on my own nickel to have him assess whether or not I still have drug, alcohol, or anger management issues and have him write a report to the FAA in OK. After all that, I will be required to participate in random drug testing with a local AME, probably the same quack who got all this $hit started in the first place because he's a little punk-@ss b!tch butt-licker who wanted to tattle-tale on his fellow AME over that stupid 8500-5 form. (Anger managment issues? Me? $hiiiiiiiiiit. :D )

Oh ... and imagine eating this little $hit sandwich knowing that you haven't so much as smoked a joint since high school (25 years ago) and have not touched alcohol in ANY form since August 1993.

Lovely ... just f@cking lovely.

Minh

(BTW ... I can't afford an aviation attorney. Not even close. I checked last night.)
 
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AMEs

Somewhere on the board in more detail should be my tale about how a certain Prescott AME nearly pulled my medical of the eve of me going to FSDO to be signed off for the ATP written. I already had a SODA for corrective lenses. This guy happened to be an opthalmologist and said he found a problem with my vision. He finally made a big stink about calling the LA regional flight surgeon and issued my medical, but made me take a different, bogus, waiver. I was turned on to a great Prescott optometrist who got the waiver lifted. Moral, for me: Never see opthalmologists.

The point, of course, is to choose your AMEs with great care.

I haven't read each comment in detail, but I wholeheartedly second the gist of those who recommend hiring an aviation lawyer. I assume that Minh already disclosed his history when he got his last medical and that nothing has changed, so what is this doctor's problem. Of course, so many feds are on witch-hunts anyway.

Do call AOPA. Do get a lawyer. Good luck with beating back these bureaucratic, vindictive SOBs.
 
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Call AOPA. Call pilot medical solutions

www.leftseat.com

They have helped a lot of folks who had issues with AME's and OKC.
They spoke at our last fly-in, and they can really be helpful
 
FAA Soap Opera update ...

According to the Federal Agent preparing the report on me, my medical has not been pulled, and they wouldn't ask for my certificate to be returned unless I failed to honor their (numerous) requests for paperwork. I sent all the stuff they requested yesterday by certified mail to the agent doing the review, and the last time he and spoke he told me they are most likely merely getting my paperwork in order for my files and that I shouldn't be paranoid. He says he is currently conducting numerous investigations on pilots and controllers in the Southeast and that mine is a very minor paperwork drill.

Evidently, since 9/11 the FAA is much quicker to flag an airman record for review for most anything, and he said the stuff they are finding out has been "unbelievable". From our conversation I was lead to believe that the FAA has been uncovering an amazing number of things about people who have held advanced certificates for many years, things that were never reported.

So, I'm still flying ... still studying ... and still hope to be CFI'ing by next Summer, as opposed to Corporate Skyhawk Captain for life. :D

Minh

And then, there is also the new Sport Pilot rules which will at least keep me flying if everything goes TU. :(
 
Snakum said:
FAA Soap Opera update ...


Minh

And then, there is also the new Sport Pilot rules which will at least keep me flying if everything goes TU. :(
Actually, it appears that if you lost your medical, you can not get a sport pilot license
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=44544f72-06e5-42cc-9c7f-0d854855c433&

It's a sad day for older pilots. Apparently LSA is only for young folks who a. never got a medical or b. stopped flying because they couldn't afford it.

It is also apparent that if you are an older person, or someone who for whatever reason can't pass a medical ANY MORE, they don't want you. If you never got a medical, and you can manage to hobble to the plane with your drivers license that you were supposed to turn in, you can fly a LSA.

Kind of not right, but who cares, it's a great day for aviation, and has the potential to offer more clients for the CFI's who get appropriate certification.
 
snakum, i'm glad to hear things are still going along for you. hope it all gets straightened out soon and with no problems.
 
This got me thinking.. I can't remember for sure what I may or may not have reported on past medical application forms. Does anyone know if there is a way I can obtain a copy of past 8500-8 forms so I can see what I put on them.



Thanks

cale
 
You mean you don't keep the copy that the AME gives you? Whenever I want to know what I put down, I just pull out my files and have a look.

But then again, there really isn't anything to look at--a couple trips to the ER for sutures, and that's about it.
 
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For reasons I can't fully remember I don't think I kept the copy they gave me when I got the exam.


Every time I get a medical I go through the same issue of trying to remember how I handled things. I had a conviction in college that was later suppressed so I never remember if I am supposed to put that on my form or not, and every time I go for a new medical I have to try and remember what I put last time... thus, I am trying to get a copy of my last 8500-8
 
Paranoia

Snakum said:
According to the Federal Agent preparing the report on me, my medical has not been pulled . . . . I shouldn't be paranoid. He says he is currently conducting numerous investigations on pilots and controllers in the Southeast and that mine is a very minor paperwork drill . . . .
I sure as hell would be paranoid. Easy for him to say, based on my experience, which pales in comparison to yours.
So, I'm still flying ... still studying ... and still hope to be CFI'ing by next Summer, as opposed to Corporate Skyhawk Captain for life.
Hope it works out. The next thing we know, the FAA will be placed under that new Cabinet-level intel agency that has been recommended.
 

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