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FAA Issues Sport Pilot Rule

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JB74

Well-known member
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Oct 10, 2003
Posts
266
Looks like the FAA finally OK'd the new sport pilot certificate today. It appears to be restricted to day only, but these new pilots aren't restricted when it comes to airspace (when properly equipped).

Also, you only need a valid DL (no medical). So, anyone from the age of 16 up into their 90's can tool around with fewer hours than a newly minted private.

Just wanted to get everyone's take on it. Good? Bad? Don't give a Hoot?


http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1874

http://www.faa.gov/newsroom/factsheets/2004/factsheets_040720.htm
 
Fantastic news for guys like me...

Hey,

I miss flying for a living badly....but miss flying for fun even more....I have bee asked to take the Sport Pilot CFI test to become one of my area's first for this class of aircraft.....Thinking about even buying a trainer to teach in as well....

There are thousands of pilots like myself that have lost medicals, but are still healthy and able to function pretty darn normal....this is great...!
 
I'm hoping (and planning) to be in a position to buy a light, two-place airplane next Summer or Fall, and now, buying something that meets the new rule will allow me to keep flying (and possibly even instructing) under the SP rule, even if I lost my medical in the next few years. According to the EAA rep writing in P&P last month, they are also lobbying for the inclusion of aircraft that meet the stall, seating, and top speed requirements while exceeding the weight, to be included. This will open up the possibility of flying C150s, Skippers, and Traumahawks under SP rules, as well as the Cubs, Aeroncas, and Taylorcraft ships.

Very ... very COOL! :)

Minh

Anyone know of a Kitfox Classic 5 for sale?
 
This is GREAT news. As a new pilot in training for PPL, Ultralights is what got me wanting to fly. I saw these one time with floats over any ocean and was immediately hooked that one day I wanted to own one of my own on a lake: http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/

I am not flying for a career, I just do it for fun because I love it. This rule is great and I have been waiting for it to happen. Now these "FAT" 2-place ultralight's will be actual FAA registered and airworthiness approved planes. The cost may go up a bit for these now that they need to carry an airworthiness certificate, but all in all, I think between owning something like this or a Cessna, this will be WAY more affordable.

I wonder, if you wanted to be a Light-Sport aircraft instructor, do you need to get like a "commerical" certificate first like you do with PPL stuff. Or do you just get your Light-Sport rating, then you can go directly for your Light-Sport Instrument rating?

I also wonder where in the FAR's these will be listed..
 
rvsm410 said:
Hey,

I miss flying for a living badly....but miss flying for fun even more....I have bee asked to take the Sport Pilot CFI test to become one of my area's first for this class of aircraft.....Thinking about even buying a trainer to teach in as well....

There are thousands of pilots like myself that have lost medicals, but are still healthy and able to function pretty darn normal....this is great...!
Click to expand...
Actually, the way it is written, if you lost your medical, you are not going to be flying, unless you get a waiver.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=44544f72-06e5-42cc-9c7f-0d854855c433&
 
I can fly FOREVER!!! Honestly, in my state if you can see the signs and can tell the red/yellow/green dots on the side of the eye test, you pass. It's a very sad joke :(
 
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Medical requirement...

sky37d said:
Actually, the way it is written, if you lost your medical, you are not going to be flying, unless you get a waiver.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=44544f72-06e5-42cc-9c7f-0d854855c433&
Click to expand...
Hey I spent alot of time reading the 475 pages today....I see where it says if you were deniged ot failed a medical that you would have to provide a waiver.....In my case I stopped flying before my medical actually ran out, I knew that my situation was going to be a disqual for a class 1 medical...so I just stopped flying and retired form the AF. So here I am...expired medical...never went to an AME since I knew I would not be able to fly the heavy metal again....but my view has changed and I would love to teach the new SP license.....My current licenses should be fine, maybe a C-17 rating is a bit much...hehe...

Anyway thanks for the feedback....I am able to do fine with the treatment plan I am in with my doctor,which by the way is insulin dependant as well, thus my reason for going to him....

Question: any suggestions in what type of aircraft I shold be looking at in order to train??? I am still looking at all the models...
 
rvsm410 said:
Question: any suggestions in what type of aircraft I shold be looking at in order to train??? I am still looking at all the models...
Click to expand...
Hey Bill, Congratulations!

I can't imagine how good this must feel to you. My suggestions are this: If you're looking for a fun, sunny day airplane, may I humbly recommend the Aeronca 7AC Champ. Compared to the other post war, rag and tube, 65 horse taildraggers, it's alot of jet for the money. The J-3 Cub is fun too, with it's open door, although I always thought the Champ flew better. You can get a showpiece for around 30K, operate from a grass strip, and burn 4.5 gallons of autogas an hour. (With the STC and added lead.) If you'd like a sise by side airplane, the Cessna 120/140 is hands-down the most airplane you can buy for the money. (Quite a bit faster than it's tandem brethren.)

Good luck with your hunting. Drop me a line if I can be of any help at all.
 
My Ultra Dream

I am unemployed and free to roam. I would love to fly one of these ultralights cross country to every small town U.S.A. and introduce new products to aviation enthusiasts. I have said this before with little response but if anyone is interested in building [manufactuing] an ultrlight design I would be happy to discuss possibilities.

Actually my real dream was to be an Astronaut, but, did not have the flight experience to make the grade [lacked military test pilot training]. Also most of the non-flight selections were from the Doctorial.edu pool.

Happy Flying. :D

 
rvsm410 said:
So here I am...expired medical...never went to an AME since I knew I would not be able to fly the heavy metal again....but my view has changed and I would love to teach the new SP license.....My current licenses should be fine, maybe a C-17 rating is a bit much...hehe...

Question: any suggestions in what type of aircraft I shold be looking at in order to train??? I am still looking at all the models...
Click to expand...
Congratulations Bill.
That's exactly how it is read, and how I interpret it. If your medical was never denied, you are golden. So, when I can't read so well, and night vision is gone, I'm just not going back to the AME.
As to which plane, EAA has a list of 'LSA Potential' aircraft. It would appear that the certified models which are eligible are all tail draggers, however, I don't see those as being popular. Also, the Cessna 120/140 don't make the cut. What I would suggest, if you want to become an instructor is see what people are flying around you, check which mfg's are most likely to come out with a LSA airplane. It would appear that Chris Heinz (Zenith ) has a leg up on his competition, but so does RANS.
I think it is probably to early to tell, but some of them will take off, and some will die lingering deaths.
 
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Who do you think is the MOST POPULAR manufacturer of these light-sport airplanes? I have heard a lot about RANS.

Any models in particular that are very good and very popular.

I was looking at some of the specs on these things, wow, some of these things can outperform the Cessna 172 and they cost like 30K with everything.. not bad!
 
The head of one of the EAA sections had an article in P&P a couple months ago where he mentioned that they are lobbying for aircraft that meet the top speed and stall speed requirements to be included regardless of weight. So for now the Cub, some Aeronca, Luscombe, and Taylorcraft models meet the spec, however, in the future the C120/140/150 and the newer Luscombe models may be included.

I figured if I lost my medical I'd just build a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 500-series motor which will qualify it as an ultralight trainer. Then, if I later qualified for a Sport Pilot license I'd trade up for a Rotax 912 or 914 in the plane. I think it'd be awesome to be able to pull my little taildragger out of my garage, unfold the wings, point it towards the end of my little grass field, and go fart around for a couple hours. :)

I think it will be a while before the Sport Pilot rules for airmen and aircraft are finalized and fully interpreted. Who knows what it will be in two years. It's a helluva good start though. :)

Minh
(Future Kitfox Jock)
 
the more I read this new ruling the more I think, unless you have a medical condition that you can't get a Third class medical, does this new Sport Pilot thing do anything for you? For instance, if you are already a PPL with a valid third class medical, you can go out, buy a light aircraft, register it under experimental and be flying. Now, I don't see what these new light-sport aircraft will enable you to do that you can't already do now and before this new rule. You could of always went out and brought a new RANS and then registered under experimental, etc. I just don't think that you can get a RANS factory built, or for that matter, I dont' think you can really get any of these light-sport planes factory built can you?

what are the rules concerning what airports you can use these light aircraft at? are you basically able to operate at ANY public airport with these things NOW and BEFORE the rule went into effect?
 
There are changes, significant ones. The first being that you can buy a LSA airplane, and go fly it, instead of building it. Look at Rans, http://www.rans.com/SportPlane/SportPlane6.htmand they say that this airplane, out the door is 65K-70K. Yes, they (Rans) do make a 'certified' airplane the S-7C. Chris Heinz says that it will take about 6 months of paperwork, creating the paper trail, and then they can offer a LSA. It means, basically, that you can get a VFR/DAY ONLY airplane, get it from the factory, fully assembled, and ready to fly home. The biggest difference between those and the kit planes (other than having to assemble it, and the cost) is that you can get yourself a Rans or a Zenith, and have it certified 'normal' for night operations, and you can get it certified for IFR. A LSP plane, by definition, can't fly at night, and can't fly IFR.

On the medical issue, they say if you 'could' qualify for a 3rd class, you can get a LSP ticket without the medical. They also say if you 'couldn't' qualify for 3rd class, you shouldn't get a LSP ticket.

The biggest thing from the FAA "Hi, I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help", is new regulations.

In their press release, the purpose of SP/LSA is that it "...sets safety standards for the 15,000 people who will now earn FAA certificates to operate more than 15,000 existing uncertificated ultralight-like aircraft." FAA Administrator Marion Blakey hammered on that point in the SP/LSA press conference.
In other words, this is being sold externally, and is probably believed by FAA internally, to be a crackdown on those shady, edge-of-the-law operators, the ultralight pilots. Like most things coming out of the FAA in the last decade, and possibly longer, it's a concept for lawyers, not for aviators.
 
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Still I wouldn't consider that affordable for myself anyhow. I am looking for somehting prebuilt and certified in the 30K range. I don't know if there will be ANYTHING that cheap..
 
I havent read the above posts cause im not in the mood to search for info so if this is a repeat, sorry....

are there restrictions on controlled airspace. We have enough problem with the private pilots flying in, this new rating isn't much more then a student pilot who doesn't get babysat by their instructors.
 
Thanks sky37

sky37d said:
Congratulations Bill.
That's exactly how it is read, and how I interpret it. If your medical was never denied, you are golden. So, when I can't read so well, and night vision is gone, I'm just not going back to the AME.
As to which plane, EAA has a list of 'LSA Potential' aircraft. It would appear that the certified models which are eligible are all tail draggers, however, I don't see those as being popular. Also, the Cessna 120/140 don't make the cut. What I would suggest, if you want to become an instructor is see what people are flying around you, check which mfg's are most likely to come out with a LSA airplane. It would appear that Chris Heinz (Zenith ) has a leg up on his competition, but so does RANS.
I think it is probably to early to tell, but some of them will take off, and some will die lingering deaths.
Click to expand...
Hey I appreciate your take on the new rules, thats the way they have written it and described it...since I just allowed my medical to expire normally with out renewal then I should be fine and left up to my own judement as to my fitness based on part 61 guideline....

As for restrictions, I understand we must stay outside or class B airspace and can only fly into C and D airspace with proper comms and lights on the aircraft. I will be reading more in the exact limitations....I belive you must be have a valid PPL to fly into Blass B's which would mean a valid 3rd class medical..

As to the comment by LRjtcaptain....I used to think the same thing about you guys flying the corporate stuff when I was on final in the C-17's....Nowever I do agree with our basic concern about inexperienced under-rated pilots in LSP's getting in the way...they have no business in that arena. This is one of my motivations to become a LSPCFI, so I can do my part in teaching about the dangers of mixing it up.....

I also want to be one of the first licensed LSP CFI's in my area..this may give me a head start on the new Market of people that want to fly much cheaper than in todays GA aircraft....

This will bring up a whole new world of LSP rental aircraft, I have not seen muh sais about this yet, but the insurance industry is probably gearing up to support this new business model as well.....
 
Overview of new LSP license

I stand to correct myself here....below outlines the limitations of the license...I guess with the proper endorsements, we CAN fly right into Class B airspace...this is going to get ugly....if some are not careful.....alot of mid field overflying of towers to get on the ground without disruption of traffic...Personally I would fly into one if I HAD to but only with a top performing LSP...120 knots type...

Reference the EAA web site:

About the Sport Pilot certificate
The sport pilot certificate is a new pilot certification category created by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) specifically to address the desire of individuals wishing to fly aircraft primarily for recreational purposes. A sport pilot may only operate an aircraft in day, VFR (visual flight rules) conditions.

The requirements to earn a pilot certificate in this category are aimed at teaching the core knowledge that individuals must understand and demonstrate in order to safely operate in the airspace system. By passing a knowledge (written) and practical (flight) test, a prospective sport pilot will demonstrate the proficiency necessary to operate a variety of aircraft safely.

Sport pilots will be limited to operating aircraft that meet the definition of a light-sport aircraft (see About Light-Sport Aircraft on this website). That includes aircraft in the following categories:

Airplanes (single-engine only)
Gliders
Lighter-than-air ships (airship or balloon)
Rotorcraft (gyroplane only)
Powered Parachutes
Weight-Shift controlled aircraft (e.g. trikes)


A sport pilot applicant must:
Be a minimum of 16 years of age to become a student sport pilot (14 for glider)
Be 17 years of age before testing for a sport pilot certificate (16 for gliders).
Be able to read, write, and understand the English language.
Hold either/or a current and valid U.S. driver's license as evidence of medical eligibility.


Medical Certification
To obtain a sport pilot certificate you must have either an FAA airman medical certificate or a current and valid U.S. driver's license issued by a state, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, a territory, a possession, or the Federal government, provided you do not have an official denial or revocation of medical eligibility on file with FAA..

You then must comply with the restrictions placed on whichever method you choose. For example, if you choose to use your driver's license as your medical certificate, you must comply with all restrictions on that license. In addition, and this is very important, you must not act as a pilot- in-command of an aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

However, a pilot who has had his or her last medical "denied" or "revoked" by FAA will be required to obtain a special issuance medical (or alternative evidence of medical eligibility under a separate procedure being developed by FAA) before being allowed to base his or her medical fitness solely on driver's license requirements.


Restrictions on a sport pilot certificate:
    • no night flights;
    • no flights into Class A airspace, which is at or over 18,000' MSL;
    • no flights into Class B, C, or D airspace unless you receive training and a logbook endorsement;
    • no flights outside the U.S. without advance permission from that country(ies)
    • no sightseeing flights with passengers for charity fund raisers;
    • no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher;
    • no flights when the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles;
    • no flights unless you can see the surface of the earth for flight reference;
    • no flights if the operating limitations issued with the aircraft do not permit that activity;
    • no flights contrary to any limitation listed on the pilot's certificate, U.S. driver's license, FAA medical certificate, or logbook endorsement(s);
    • no flights while carrying a passenger or property for compensation or hire (no commercial operations);
    • no renting a light-sport aircraft unless it was issued a "special" airworthiness certificate;
    • any qualified and current pilot (recreational pilot or higher) may fly a light-sport aircraft.
    • a light-sport aircraft may be flown at night if it is properly equipped for night flight and flown by a individual with a private pilot (or higher) certificate who has a current and valid FAA airman's certificate.

    See other areas of this website for more detailed information on obtaining a sport pilot certificate, including sport pilot instruction, and on the light-sport aircraft category.
    How will it make flying easier/more hassle-free for me?

    New pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate will be able to learn how to fly powered aircraft (fixed-wing airplanes, weight-shift trikes, powered parachutes, gyroplanes, or airships) in as little as 20 hours of flight instruction, saving both time and money. (Note: Your flight instructor will make the final determination as to your readiness to take a practical flight exam.)

    Student pilots currently working on a private pilot certificate will be able to apply their training toward a sport pilot certificate and operate under sport pilot privileges until such time as they choose to complete the requirements for a private pilot rating. All time logged as a sport pilot can be applied toward higher ratings.

    Private pilots or higher with a current medical certificate and flight review can fly any light-sport aircraft in the categories and classes for which they are rated, creating more opportunities for them to own or rent light-sport aircraft.

    Private pilots or higher may also choose to exercise the privileges of a sport pilot and operate any sport-pilot eligible aircraft in the categories or classes in which they are rated using their valid driver's license or third-class medical as their medical certification.
    If I become a sport pilot, what can I fly?

    An aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft may hold an airworthiness certificate in any one of the following categories of FAA certification:
    • an experimental aircraft, including amateur-built aircraft, for which the owner must construct more than 51-percent of the aircraft.
    • a Standard category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that is type-certificated in accordance with FAR Part 43.
    • a Primary category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that is type-certificated in accordance with Primary category regulations.
    • a "special" light-sport aircraft
    • an experimental light-sport aircraft.
    Why does EAA think this is an important initiative?

    Overall the sport-pilot rule makes becoming a pilot and owning an aircraft more affordable and less time consuming for many people, while still ensuring that the safety of aviators and the public is maintained. It will reduce the hassles that have hampered many people from realizing their dream to fly.

    EAA has been extremely active in the effort to make the sport pilot rule a reality by facilitating discussions among manufacturers, working with government representatives, and working to make pilots and enthusiasts aware of this opportunity.

 
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My question now is if you could get something like a C152 (or an aircraft that complies with the limitations) and derate the payload to comply with the weight limitiations and it would then become a "Light-Sport Aircraft" category of aircraft (like how a 172 can be either a utility or normal category aircraft depending on the weight and balance).
 
Bill,

You are right. It is really important for proper instruction, and proper endorsements for Sport Pilots. You can lend a real service here. The limitation of 5 hours in type before giving instruction isn't much different than current limitations.

Jedi, You are out of luck. No way to take a 152 or 72 and make it a LSA. However, a J-3 is a LSA.
 
sky37d said:
Jedi, You are out of luck. No way to take a 152 or 72 and make it a LSA. However, a J-3 is a LSA.
Click to expand...
I had figured that the 152 was a little too fast and heavy (too fast and heavy for a 152! Never thought I would say that). Nice that some aircraft are being 'recertified' into the LSA category so it gives those people something to do.
 
Jedi,

You cant de-certify a standard certifed aircraft.....aircraft like the Cessna's their is talk however of the old 120's fitting the bill.
 

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