ExpressJet trip trade

[BigDave]

Hello to all, looking for some info about trip trades/give aways at Express Jet. How easy is it to give trips away once you have a line, also how easy is it to trade trips with stuff in open time or with other pilots? Is this all done on line or the old fax it to the scheduling people for approval? Is it possible to give away half your trips and only work half the month?

Thanks

 

[Nova]

This can turn into a pretty heated discussion among XJet pilots given we recently signed a new LOA regarding this.

Basically, the new LOA gives line holders a chance to trade with the open time pool before the remaining trips are broken down into Relief/Reserve Conversion lines. A line holder can see about 200+ pairings at any given time in that pool for a particular base and position.

Lineholders get 2 24 hour trip trade windows to improve their schedules. One window is before the relief/reserve conversions are build and one is after. It's all handled in real time online or over the phone with a scheduler if you don't have access to the internet or there an error message shows up during the online transaction. I personally haven't had any problems with the new system and as a result haven't had any trades denied. The limitations placed on the system now are a lot less constrictive than they use to be allowing for easier trading.

As for trading down your schedule, yes you can but you'll lose $$. One offshoot of the new LOA is that your monthly pay guarantee is no longer protected if you trade down your below the 75 hour mark. Now there are some other rules with that but that is the basic premise. There was a problem with pilots trading down their entire schedule to only a few hours (still being protected for the 75) and then picking up all the trips again. Now it was being shown as flying on days off and there for being added above the guarantee. In a nutshell they were getting paid 120+ hours for flying their orginal line.

Is the new system perfect? Probably not but in my opinion it's a lot better than the old one. Before you could pick up more flying than you were dropping and still get it denied due to "lack of coverage." I haven't heard those words since the new system was implimented. This is my opinion so I'm sure others have different takes on how successful the change has been.

 

[nimtz]

Hello to all, looking for some info about trip trades/give aways at Express Jet. How easy is it to give trips away once you have a line, also how easy is it to trade trips with stuff in open time or with other pilots? Is this all done on line or the old fax it to the scheduling people for approval? Is it possible to give away half your trips and only work half the month?

Thanks

Oh boy, this one would be the equivalent of a grenade on the crackpipe. Dave, I think our trip trading is okay, but could get better. It's a soar point around our house right now, because we just voted to allow major changes that rubbed some guys the wrong way.

I'll give you the simple points that you need to know as an outsider. After we get our lines, all the trips uncovered due to events like vacation or recurrent training get dumped into open time. Line holders are given a 24 hour window where they can alter their line as they see feel with certain limitations (don't get me started on these).

As of right now this system is not very good if you're looking to get more days off and/or trade for days off you didn't hold with you're line. This has p!ssed off alot of our guys. The long and short of it is we are understaffed right now, as usual and the company puts limits on how many open trips it will allow on a given day of a week with its reserve coverage. Myself, I've found the 24 hour window is good if you want to get rid of sh!tty trips for more productive, get commutablility, or simply like the overnights. However, I mostly only trade for trips on days I'm working already. As for more days off, forget about it for the most part.

There's also a second window later in the month before, which basically consists of a few sh!tty trips left over. I hardly even give that period a second look. Once the bid month starts you can trip trade any time during the month, but like I said if the reserve coverage is low on the day you're trying to get out of work then you're pretty much f*cked.

The actual system we have for trip trading is pretty nice. It's all done on-line and usually processes the results in seconds. Unfortunately we cannot trip trade between pilots other then simple word of mouth between two guys. The company has the software to allow us to advertise trips on our internal site, but they have refused to turn it on so far. Overall, I'm kind of neutral to the whole thing right now. It could be better, but it ain't the worst. My buddy over at Eagle told me all they can do is pick-up open time, not trade. That's a serious quality of life problem I wouldn't want to have.

Other Xjet guys have at it if you feel there's anything more to add, but please no LOA arguements. We have a crackpipe for that!

 

[Nova]

I'm blaming LOA 15 for my car breaking down.

 

[BigDave]

Sorry to throw gas on the fire with this one but as a new hire always have many questions. Therefore, from what I understand you can give trips away but the amount you give away below your guarantee in hours you loose from your guarantee. With the shortage of pilots, scheduling will not approve trip give aways? Is this correct? I guess my main concern if you want the time off, and you hold a line and you do not mind getting paid bellow your guarantee can you easly give days away?

Thanks for the info. .

 

[Floyd94]

If you want the time off bid for the lower time parings.... you can always pick up trips but you can't always drop tirps.

This month for me I held a conversion/relief line and was stuck with a 95hr line. Im really fu*ked cause I can't drop anything (due to "low coverage")which is total BS by the way. So I haven't seen my wife and home for two weeks cause the tirps Ive been assigned are not commutable. For me the "overtime" isn't worth anything cause we don't get paid sh*t anyway. I would much prefer the time off to the "overtime". If I lived at my base I would almost always bid reserve until I could hold a line with at least 15-16 days off a month.

Next month I'm seriously considering a reserve line cause at least then Ill be able to go home every week.

Living the dream...

 

[mckpickle]

Sorry to throw gas on the fire with this one but as a new hire always have many questions. Therefore, from what I understand you can give trips away but the amount you give away below your guarantee in hours you loose from your guarantee. With the shortage of pilots, scheduling will not approve trip give aways? Is this correct? I guess my main concern if you want the time off, and you hold a line and you do not mind getting paid bellow your guarantee can you easly give days away?

Thanks for the info. .

Correct. For March I noticed there was plenty of coverage at the end of the month. So I said what the heck and dropped a 4 day. It was worth 20 hours and dropped my line value down to 62 from 82. I figured I could pick up a 1 or 2 day if I wanted to make us some of the money but then I got reaaaaaaal lazy and said the heck with it. By the end I ended up with 18 days of and a 62 hour value.

It has plusses and minuses but for lineholders it lets you pick and choose trips you want. Exp. I traded a trip and got 2 overnights at home, and another trip to spend time with a buddy in CGV for 36 hours.

 

[Jetlink]

Is the new system perfect? Probably not but in my opinion it's a lot better than the old one. Before you could pick up more flying than you were dropping and still get it denied due to "lack of coverage." I haven't heard those words since the new system was implimented. This is my opinion so I'm sure others have different takes on how successful the change has been.

MAX OPEN PAIRINGS is EXACTLY the same thing as LACK OF COVERAGE. Different name, same shiit.

Under the old system, you still had access to all of the open time, and as a line holder you could submit "requests" that are typically due 48 hours after bids close that were looked at in seniority order, and were granted 95% of the time. 99% of the pilots in our group did not know of this provision or use it.

NOW, seniority is out the window and it all has to do with 1) who is at their computer when the open time window opens 2) how fast of an internet connection you have 3) how quick you are on the mouse click 4) how Gary Cerrato feels the day he sets the min reserve levels 5) how properly staffed we are - hahahahaha, now that one is a good one!

You see, our union provided LIMITED information on LOA 15, and failed to inform us of a letter of intent, that gives the company 100% discression on assigning min reserve levels and also allows them to completely ZERO OUT trading on 8 days of the month, again completely within their discression. Brilliant. ZERO pilot control over reserve leves, 100% company control = 0 pilot control over trip trades, you are a slave to the company's whim.

LOA 15 gave away MUCH more than it obtained, and is worse than the previous system.

Our flight attendants have an AWESOME trade system, but now the company wants to discard it using the "success of the pilots trading", and the idiots that they are, will probably give it up also.

Don't even get us started on offering a pilot-wide LOA vote in the middle of negotiations, and coincidentally, as soon as we gave the company the relief they were seeking in LOA 15, they stop cooperating with us......gee golly.

ALPA's great though

 

[Jetlink]

Correct. For March I noticed there was plenty of coverage at the end of the month. So I said what the heck and dropped a 4 day. It was worth 20 hours and dropped my line value down to 62 from 82. I figured I could pick up a 1 or 2 day if I wanted to make us some of the money but then I got reaaaaaaal lazy and said the heck with it. By the end I ended up with 18 days of and a 62 hour value.

It has plusses and minuses but for lineholders it lets you pick and choose trips you want. Exp. I traded a trip and got 2 overnights at home, and another trip to spend time with a buddy in CGV for 36 hours.

Steve, be advised that when you drop this and your guarantee goes to whatever, it is SPLIT, half and half, paid on the first and on the 16th. In other words, you drop to 60 hours, you will get paid 30 on the 1st and 30 on the 16th....I made this mistake ONLY ONCE!!!

 

[145FO]

With the shortage of pilots, scheduling will not approve trip give aways? Is this correct?

Thanks for the info. . [/B]

Yes, this is correct. That's probably one of the reasons we lead the industry in sick call usage. At least we lead the industry in something.
145FO

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

You see, our union provided LIMITED information on LOA 15, and failed to inform us of a letter of intent, that gives the company 100% discression on assigning min reserve levels and also allows them to completely ZERO OUT trading on 8 days of the month, again completely within their discression. Brilliant. ZERO pilot control over reserve leves, 100% company control = 0 pilot control over trip trades, you are a slave to the company's whim.

Ummm, No. I remember carring around that letter for everone to see for the weeks leading up to the vote. We did not hide it from anyone.

Also, there is absolutly no airline in the country of the United States of America that has such a provision. It does not exist, period.

Frat,
former IAH FO Rep

PS: I bet I know you XOXOXO

 

[Jetlink]

Ummm, No. I remember carring around that letter for everone to see for the weeks leading up to the vote. We did not hide it from anyone.

Also, there is absolutly no airline in the country of the United States of America that has such a provision. It does not exist, period.

Frat,
former IAH FO Rep

PS: I bet I know you XOXOXO

Ummm, No. I remember no one carrying it around anywhere near me nor did I actually see anyone carrying around anything about anything. Printed materials sent to the addresses on record is the ONLY way proper governance is assured and information disseminated.

Crew room visits do not cut it. 95% of everyone that has knowledge of this vote had no idea this letter existed. The provision to allow trades between pilots is in many many contracts. In other words, it was severly lacking in substance.

Perhaps this is why you are the former IAH FO Rep?

xoxo to you too

 

[Jetlink]

Also, there is absolutly no airline in the country of the United States of America that has such a provision. It does not exist, period.

Also, in this line of thinking, aren't we supposed to be RAISING the bar, not just following in the pitiful lead of others???

We have a moving policy that is not found in any provision of any contract in "absolutely no airline in the country of the United States of America." That is until now, were we have certainly corrected that morsal, again, in favor of the company. Pilots lose again.

I see a pattern here. Folks, do not hold out for XJET to provide an industry leading contract, we are too busy bringing ourselves down to everyone else's level.

 

[Jetlink]

Yes, this is correct. That's probably one of the reasons we lead the industry in sick call usage. At least we lead the industry in something.
145FO

welll....everyone here is SICK and tired of, well, working here!

 

[mckpickle]

Steve, be advised that when you drop this and your guarantee goes to whatever, it is SPLIT, half and half, paid on the first and on the 16th. In other words, you drop to 60 hours, you will get paid 30 on the 1st and 30 on the 16th....I made this mistake ONLY ONCE!!!

Split? Hummm I called payroll after I dropped it to see what my check would be on 4/1. I got paid 25 hours. So I guess the check on 4/16 will be for 27.5+ the ..............wait now I'm confused.

The total amount I was payed in March =62 hours. So how can they take more away? If they do take some away in April, I think it'll still be XX hours + whatever over line value and =37.5....right?