ExpressJet/DOT

[sweptback]

"Minneapolis Center this is Xjet, 1234, we are declaring an emergency on the ground in Rochester due to the fact that we are unable to safetly accomodate the passengers in our aircraft."

Next, the flight crew says the same thing on Rochester CTAF (118.3), and Unicom (122.95) and finally the operations frequency. Adding that if no help is seen in the next 5 minutes, their net phone call will be to 911.

Declaring an emergency would be a terrible idea. You're already on the ground, what more could ATC do for you?

What the Captain should have done is use her Captain's authority to find a solution to the problem. This is evidently beyond the grasp of some on here, but Captain's authority and declaring an emergency are two totally separate things.

 

[piav8r]

piav8r- I deliberately neglected to address the crew's responsibility in the matter as I am only commenting towards the incompetency of the Mesaba ground crew and how their actions reflect about 90% of the Mesaba stations I deal with.

Fine then Max Q, I deliberately took offense to your whole post because you felt the need to correlate the ALLEGED actions of one XJ GROUD employee across the entire company, including I might add:

"National media exposure first... next is bent sheet metal and finally loss of life. You dumb bastards."

Had you not posted on a public forum that the ALLEGED actions of ONE groundsperson would lead to bent sheet metal and loss of life is ignorant at best. Since you didn't explain further I can only assume you meant to lump grounds personel, and a professional flight crew in the same category.

And if you have had a problem with XJ stations in the past, go through channels at your company to bring them to the attention of XJ management and things will change. If you aren't willing to do that... you have no right to complain.

There are WAY to many inconsistencies in this story, mysterious other flights that were able to get bussed at the same time, etc...

 

[hou757]

I don't buy the blame game towards Mesaba. There was an NWA flight on the ground at the same time. They had no problems getting their people off the plane and into a bus. A bus, with seats made available to the XJet flight, I might add.

Oh really.. Listen to this just released audio from the DOT

http://www.startribune.com/audio/539...nDaycUiacyKUUr

 

[Max Q]

Fine then Max Q, I deliberately took offense to your whole post because you felt the need to correlate the ALLEGED actions of one XJ GROUD employee across the entire company, including I might add:

"National media exposure first... next is bent sheet metal and finally loss of life. You dumb bastards."

Had you not posted on a public forum that the ALLEGED actions of ONE groundsperson would lead to bent sheet metal and loss of life is ignorant at best. Since you didn't explain further I can only assume you meant to lump grounds personel, and a professional flight crew in the same category.

And if you have had a problem with XJ stations in the past, go through channels at your company to bring them to the attention of XJ management and things will change. If you aren't willing to do that... you have no right to complain.

There are WAY to many inconsistencies in this story, mysterious other flights that were able to get bussed at the same time, etc...

piav8r- I am speaking directly to those ground stations occupied by underpaid and under-trained ground handlers, whom in many cases, have no desire to provide timely assistance to any piece of equipment not painted in red. None of my posts require further explanation by customers and crew who deal with these stations on a regular basis.

I can understand your reluctance to accept the above statement by the DOT as fact but I can assure you, these allegations come as no surprise to many of us in the business.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Ezralite]

Mesa(ba) sucks!

 

[DiverDriver]

Mesa(ba) sucks!

Oh well played sir. <golf clap> Two birds, one post.

 

[piav8r]

I agree, they are underpaid... But you still didn't answer my question... why do you equate ground service with XJ bending sheet metal and killing people?

How many fatal accidents has Mesaba had again?

Retract the "dumb bastards, bent sheet metal, and killing people" part of your statement, then I will have no issue with whatever opinion you have on what happened in RST...

 

[Max Q]

I retract nothing. If they're not going to bring back the veterans, adequately train the greenhorns and pay them more.

 

[flap operator]

Man MaxQ, you're seriously disgruntled from the VPS changeover huh? Too bad it's a two-way street and the service from former red tail stations, that are now combined with DL SUCK!! D-0 is like a totally new concept at DL. You're going to let your limited experience with an XJ station color our entire company? Thanks for all the prejudgment.

 

[Max Q]

Flap Operator: I want you to go back in this thread and quote the exact phrase of mine that leads you to believe I am criticizing the entire company.

I can assure you, there are very few things in life I am disgruntled about. This is not one of them.

 

[blesko]

Man MaxQ, you're seriously disgruntled from the VPS changeover huh? Too bad it's a two-way street and the service from former red tail stations, that are now combined with DL SUCK!! D-0 is like a totally new concept at DL. You're going to let your limited experience with an XJ station color our entire company? Thanks for all the prejudgment.

Dood, nothing against the mesaba flight crews, however the ground personnel have shown an ability to complete a changeover with absolute neolitic incompetence. I've missed a scheduled deadhead from a mesaba operated station, had a mesaba station tell me that we are only taking 28 people because of check in problems, when the flight is oversold, and shown up for an early show time at a mesaba station where there was 1 employee that had EVER security searched an aircraft before, the list goes on.

Mesaba bid less, won the award, got the bottom of the barrel people to run the station. They operate on the ground with the hand they are dealt, whether good or bad. Prior proper planning prevents piss poor perfromance.

 

[flap operator]

You said: "National media exposure first... next is bent sheet metal and finally loss of life. You dumb bastards." Maybe I'm not getting what you're trying to say. Please elaborate.

I completely agree that there are issues in some XJ ground handling. However, with the XJ DL stations, I completely blame DL for not even training XJ ground staff as a whole on the DL procedures and computer systems adequately. Conversely, I blame NWA for not teaching DL stations how to get an NWA flight out properly. Ultimately, it's all DL/NW driving this ship. An XJ red tail station works just fine except for the occasional hiccups.

Yes, you may get what you pay for, but there is always a learning curve when things are new. Also, would it really be that much different right now if any other company came in and took over for ASA? It's like the Pinnacle people thinking DTW would be soooooo much better if their people were running the show.

Let's agree on this... the station change overs across the board have been debacles and that only DL can fall on the sword for that in rushing the integration with poor staffing and training.

And to get back on topic... I find it very suspicious and hard to believe that ALL of the blame (according to the DOT) is now going towards Mesaba, as if XJet and the crew are completely exonerated from the matter. No single person or organization should have to shoulder the blame for this one. There's plenty of that to go around.

 

[Max Q]

Flap Operator: My comment is directed to all those responsible for staffing these ground stations with inadequately trained personnel, including DL for awarding the lowest bidder knowing full well what these guys were going to be making. Everyone is to blame here...

 

[Lyconit]

So, I guess an "planned" alternate can be anywhere there is enough concrete regardless if there are planned accomodations for the aircraft and crew? Who planned RST as an alternate and did they think about what might happen if it were to be actually used? Did they call anyone to make sure the aircraft could be handled properly or was it an emergency diversion?

By the way, the FBO handles large aircraft for King's, Prince's and diplomats world-wide (for Mayo Clinic) and they could have handled the aircraft there as well.

Listening to that STRIB tape I heard nothing about passengers unable to deplane but I did hear XJT coordinator say they had another half hour to make a decision and the Mesaba manager state they wanted to get them off if possible...

Listen to the tape again!

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Listening to that STRIB tape I heard nothing about passengers unable to deplane but I did hear XJT coordinator say they had another half hour to make a decision and the Mesaba manager state they wanted to get them off if possible...

You f-ing retard. YOU listen to the tape. That Mesaba OPS bitch clearly said that she will not let pax off the plane into the terminal, and that "she (XJT CA) needs to leave" the airport.