Express Jet to lose 69 a/c by 2007

[nimtz]

Let's reopen the flow thru agreement and flow up the overage if that happens.
I for one think that we should have gone with a single seniority list, but then you would have taken the concessions beating.........we plan to hire 64 pre month for months to come why not from XJT?

Thank Jimmy T and the crooked IAH MEC for killing that sane idea. According to them most any line pilot frustrated at CAL ALPA was due to being the single MEC and thus being stuck with kids flying rjs. Funny many flowbacks I flew with admitted to me that they saw little benefit to onelist when at CAL. After spending sometime in our cockpits they turned their thinking around 180 degrees.

 

[Four Strings]

Nevermind.

FS

 

[densoo]

"A recent analysis by JP Morgan, however, puts ExpressJet near the bottom of the revenue scale among the larger regional carriers -- a group that also includes Comair, SkyWest, American Eagle, Mesa, Pinnacle and Republic. ExpressJet's revenue per block hour for the year through the third quarter was $1,887, just above the lowest block-hour revenue of $1,865 at Republic."

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aviationdaily_story.jsp?id=news/EXP12285.xml

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I dont think this would be happening if Bethune was still there.

I strongly disagree with your above statement. Gordo would do the same thing in a New York minute if it was in his best intesrest to do so. Lets see CAL can't announce their intentions to get pay concessions from all employee groups until Gordo has one foot out the door. After all his hanger partys aircraft naming ceramonies he walks out the door with somewhere between 25M and 50M exit package on the eve of employee consesions. His response a "deal is a deal" I negotiated that contract a long time ago.

If CAL ALPA had started negotiating our concessionary contract in Jul of 2004 when they were informed by the company the concessions were necessary instead of Feb 1, 2005 we would have had a much better contract. Even the rocket scientists at CAL ALPA (Not!) could have gotten us a better deal. How do you negotiate a comprehensive deal in 30 days, vote on it at both the MEC and Membership level without final language being written? All because Gordo couldn't have concessions on the eve of his exit

No need to look any furthur than how Gordo treated the CAL employees post 9/11. Granted he made the right decisions, but he in no way treated our employees with his dignity and respect BS while implementing his plan.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

It goes both ways obviously. There were more than a few OTS CAL pilots who flowed back to XJT that left me scratching my head as to how they ever got hired by mainline. They certainly weren't the "best and brightest" nor were they the ever consummate professionals but like you said, a few will always slip through the cracks. Most, however, were great.

-Neal

Neal,

As the Negotiating Committee Chairman for Express Jet did you get to hang around much with Jay when he had his many "lunches" with Larry? Don't know if you remember me but I welcomed you to CAL when you were a new hire eating lunch with some of your friends in the C1 food court.

By the way I think you are a very intelligent and I'm sure you did a strong job for the Express pilots I'm interested in your take of CAL's latest news re: Express Jet?

 

[MINIME]

And I am one. I think that flow-throughs are for the idiot who couldn't get the job on his own. The village idiot could squeeze through the cracks (not that they didn't anyway) beacause the company was obligated to hire him. I know what you are going to say, but I never liked the flow through even when I was on the other side. I don't see how someone, just because they worked for the express carrier, would be better fit to fly for the mainline carrier. Corporate culture?? I don't think so. I know a number of tool bags that don't ever deserve to be flying for a mainline anything. On the flip side I also know a bunch of others who are much better than I am that are currently stuck at their regional job. Get over the flow through and get the job on your own. (that is once your buddy helps you with the inital interview)

Your argument has merit to it. However, let me pose this question to you. Does the fact that a potential candidate has to know someone at CAL, in some cases CA or above, strike you as somewhat similar to a preferential situation? Of course, this is just to get the interview. What do you say to that regional pilot who perhaps happens to be a good stick, has a great or positive attitude but has no friends at CAL because of a variety of reasons. Among them could be; that none of his buddies at the regionals have gone to CAL, does not come from an aviation family therefore, no uncles, cousins, dads, close friends to family etc., etc. Could it not be assumed that by recomendations alone depending on the recomendation, some of those not so desirable candidates that you speak of would slip through the craks just because they know Mr. or Mrs. so and so at CAL? My point here is merely to pose a counter argument to your view on flowthroughs.

I would say that at least preferential interviews for XJT guys and gals, isn't much to ask. Oh, and it would be nice if they threw an interview here and there for that guy or gal who has no friends or ties to CAL. This is just my humble, perhaps uninformed and naive opinion.

 

[densoo]

Does the fact that a potential candidate has to know someone at CAL, in some cases CA or above, strike you as somewhat similar to a prefferential situation?

"Likability can even trump competence." --Harvard Business Review

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2005-12-28-likeability-usat_x.htm

Life is a "preferential situation." To those who aren't networked (a byproduct of likeability), nothing is fair. To those who are, they don't know what the fuss is all about.

The likeable person "knows someone" at all the airlines, probably. CAL happens to be hiring now.

 

[Photoflight]

What are the chances the CAL pilots put thier foot down and start taking back some of the RJ flying or incorporating the sold routes into mainline.

--Mind you I have no dog in this fight so try not to rip me to hard.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,

As the Negotiating Committee Chairman for Express Jet did you get to hang around much with Jay when he had his many "lunches" with Larry? Don't know if you remember me but I welcomed you to CAL when you were a new hire eating lunch with some of your friends in the C1 food court.

By the way I think you are a very intelligent and I'm sure you did a strong job for the Express pilots I'm interested in your take of CAL's latest news re: Express Jet?

JB...shoot me a PM on the CAL side of calforums and we can chat. But no, I've never had a "lunch with Larry" although I've had "dinners with Jim" and "lunches with George." And of course I remember the day you walked up to Brian, Bret, Eric and I.

-Neal

 

[densoo]

CAL pilots put thier foot down

That is an oxymoron.

 

[maru657]

Interesting problem, I always thought the guys flying for the regionals should have formed strong independant unions. Especially since many of these were people without the prerequisite degrees in advanced basket weaving and consequently no old squadron buddies in the chief pilot's office to help them bypass the mandatory B.S. advanced by the human remains dept.
The guys at Eagle probably had the last best chance. With strength in numbers they could have told the Allied boys no to any limits on size or numbers of jets and any seniority agreement would be via strict date of hire.
As I recall, the last time that was effected was by the ALPA, MEC of the old Frontier Airlines who insisted that there be only one seniority list, date of hire. Of course nowdays, If I were one of the people relagated to the "red headed stepchild" position at a regional, I would at least eagerly await the opportunity to cross a picket line and even things up that way. Life might be tough for awhile but look at those senior guys at Continental who crossed.
Or as a friend said "if the systems rigged, don't be the sucker caught playing fair". The systems been broken for a long time and racing for the bottom. Might as well help it along and once it reaches bottom maybe an effort to create a fair system can be started.

 

[densoo]

Or as a friend said "if the systems rigged, don't be the sucker caught playing fair".... Might as well help it along and once it reaches bottom maybe an effort to create a fair system can be started.

Or, heck, while you're at it, you might as well put people in concentration camps since everyone else is doing it otherwise it might make you look like a sucker. Don't want to be caught having any moral code when no one else does. Very inconvenient to career progession. Help corruption along so that once you're reached the bottom maybe you can make it all right--then, but not before.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I fly for Expressjet. I'm not worried, in fact I feel bad for the CAL pilots. They have to deal with Mesa people now. Good luck, it was fun while it lasted.

Agreed. CAL is making a huge mistake.

 

[superrav]

And I am one. I think that flow-throughs are for the idiot who couldn't get the job on his own. The village idiot could squeeze through the cracks (not that they didn't anyway) beacause the company was obligated to hire him. I know what you are going to say, but I never liked the flow through even when I was on the other side. I don't see how someone, just because they worked for the express carrier, would be better fit to fly for the mainline carrier. Corporate culture?? I don't think so. I know a number of tool bags that don't ever deserve to be flying for a mainline anything. On the flip side I also know a bunch of others who are much better than I am that are currently stuck at their regional job. Get over the flow through and get the job on your own. (that is once your buddy helps you with the inital interview)

And how is what they are doing now better then the flow through?? What i mean is, im just hearing to many stories of my uncles a check airman..blah blah..im all for using what you have..(network), but your statment doesnt make sense...There are many qualified guys at Express that have sat in the left seat for years..start hiring them..

 

[maru657]

Or, heck, while you're at it, you might as well put people in concentration camps since everyone else is doing it otherwise it might make you look like a sucker. Don't want to be caught having any moral code when no one else does. Very inconvenient to career progession. Help corruption along so that once you're reached the bottom maybe you can make it all right--then, but not before.

Sometimes a moral code is someone else's excuse to walk all over you. Do you think the AA guys believe they can count on the unconditional support of the Reno guys or the TWA people. A national standard of fairness would be nice but in the meantime let chaos rule.