expired CFI renewal

[bugchaser]

Got a question for you guys. I have let my CFI certificate expire and would like to get it back. what is involved in getting this back? I have been told that I just have to retake the practical. My question is this. I never had a CFII, can I take the practical for the CFII instead of the basic CFI? I know I will need to take the written for the CFII. I am just trying to eliminate one checkride if possible. Thanks.

 

[bobbysamd]

Expired CFI

Once your CFI expires, it expires. To get all your ratings back you have to take a practical, but you only get back what you had. If you take a CFI practical for a different rating, you only get that rating. Therefore, you need to incorporate CFI-A into your II practical.

I thought I could get back all my CFI ratings by taking the CFI-G practical until I was told otherwise.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[SkiHerkDrvr]

Bobby,
I respectfully disagree with you on this one. The FAA 8710.3 (Pilot Examiner's Handbook) states the following under the General Procedures for Renewal or Reinstatment:

" An applicant may renew all ratings on a current flight instructor certificate by satisfactorily completing one practical test. Also the satisfactory completion of a practical test for an additional instructor rating constitutes the renewal of an instructor certificate."

The examiners I have asked about this interpret that second sentence to mean that a new rating renews all your old ones. As with most of these questions, I'm sure you would get different answers from every examiner you ask. I'm in the process of renewing mine which is why I happened to have the reference handy.

 

[jetdriven]

it depends on the eaxminer. if you go out and "teach" him a private checkride that would fulfill the renewal requirements. So would adding a rating , such as MEI ir CFII. so would retaking the MEI checkride.
I'm doing it too.

 

[bobbysamd]

Renewal v. reinstatement

Bobby,
I respectfully disagree with you on this one. The FAA 8710.3 (Pilot Examiner's Handbook) states the following under the General Procedures for Renewal or Reinstatment:

" An applicant may renew all ratings on a current flight instructor certificate by satisfactorily completing one practical test. Also the satisfactory completion of a practical test for an additional instructor rating constitutes the renewal of an instructor certificate."

The examiners I have asked about this interpret that second sentence to mean that a new rating renews all your old ones. As with most of these questions, I'm sure you would get different answers from every examiner you ask. I'm in the process of renewing mine which is why I happened to have the reference handy.

(emphasis added)

Interesting...... Every time I added a rating on my CFI it automatically updated and extended my expiration date, pursuant to your cite above.

Renewal of a current CFI is distinguished from reinstatement of an expired CFI. Bugchaser stated that his CFI expired and he wants to reinstate it. Therefore, from what I've since learned and understand, he, and I, would have to take reinstatement practicals to get back what we had. Taking a practical for a new rating won't get back the old, from what I understand from the rules. Maybe the examiner can be worked with on doing both.

What does your pub say about reinstatement? Inquiring minds want to know .....

 

[midlifeflyer]

You can renew by taking a practical test for a new rating. You need to take a practical test for an old rating to reinstate.

Under 61.199, a CFI with an expired certificate may reinstate it by passing a practical test for any rating that appears on the certificate:

"The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in § 61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate."

This is a change that was [art of the 1997 Part 61 revision. As the Federal register preamble said,

"The FAA has revised § 61.199 to clarify that a flight instructor who holds an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new flight instructor certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as required in § 61.183(h) for only one of the ratings listed on the expired certificate. Section 61.199 previously did not require a flight instructor who held an expired flight instructor certificate to pass a practical test for each rating listed on that certificate and the FAA did not intend to impose such a requirement when it revised that section."

But, if you look at the language in this Reg and compare it to 61.197 (renewals)

"A person who holds a flight instructor certificate that has not expired may renew that certificate by *** Passing a practical test for ***One of the ratings listed on the current flight instructor certificate; or ***
An additional flight instructor rating;"

it looks like you can't reinstate with a new rating. You still need to take a practical test for one of the old ones.

But that's still not as bad as having to take them all. I this situation, I'd sit down with a DPE, tell him the situation, and ask what he'd be looking for to reinstate the old while giving the new.

 

[FastPilot]

Ok, my CFI/II/MEI expired in Sept 2001 (good lesson on not procrastenating...) and I am going to take the checkride for my ATP soon (both single and multi) What I was wondering is.... could we extend the multi ATP a little and have it cover my MEI re-instatement? Second question, if the answer is no, what does it cost to re-take a CFI ride these days? Do I have to get naother 3 hours of test prep with a CFI? Or can my 3 hours of test prep for the multi ATP count? Or, since I used to have the rating, can I get away with no test prep at all? Every dollar of dual is another jar of baby food and a clean diaper withheld from my son

 

[midlifeflyer]

>What I was wondering is.... could we extend the multi ATP a little and have it cover my MEI re-instatement?

The answer to this is a lot like the answer to "Can I do an IPC the same time as my BFR?"

There's nothing in the regulations that says that you can't. And, although there may be some policy, I haven't seen anything that indicates this. I've heard of people combining the Commercial and CFI Practical Tests.

It's probably a matter of personal preference for DPEs. Ask one.

Cost probably varies a lot regionally.

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI reinstatement

What I was wondering is.... could we extend the multi ATP a little and have it cover my MEI re-instatement?

Are you taking your ATP with your company's POI? That would be an upgrade ride. I'd bet that if you have you 8710 ready and approach the person politely that he/she will work with you. In many cases the FAA is usually good about such things. If it's a company check airman/DE, it would depend on if the person can give CFI practicals.

I suppose that I need to check in to the cost of CFI reinstatements, but I don't think I wanna know!!

 

[FastPilot]

Re: CFI reinstatement

Are you taking your ATP with your company's POI? That would be an upgrade ride.

I wish, we are currently running 10 year upgrades here (no joke) and I am no where near that number, I am just trying to avoid furlough, and doing this to have more options, and increase my chances of success in a job search.

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI reinstatement

I wish, we are currently running 10 year upgrades here (no joke) and I am no where near that number, I am just trying to avoid furlough, and doing this to have more options, and increase my chances of success in a job search.

Sorry to hear it.

At least you don't have to take a CFI renewal with the FAA. I say that not because DEs are any more or less fair, but they're easier to schedule. I would talk it over with your examiner. Most of the DEs I've known are very accomodating, and should be in your case. Hopefully, you won't have to pony up another examiner's fee, which, by the way, would be tax-deductable.

Good luck with your practicals.

 

[Douglas H]

QUESTION: Per § 61.199(a), is it permissible for a flight instructor certificate to be reinstated (i.e., the flight instructor certificate has expired) on the basis of an applicant accomplishing an additional flight instructor rating practical test, even though the applicant was not tested on his existing flight instructor ratings? As for example, a person holds an expired flight instructor certificate (a certificate that was issued on or after November 1, 1975) with the following ratings: Airplane Single-engine, Airplane Multiengine, and Instrument-Airplane. The applicant is now requesting to renew his flight instructor certificate by accomplishment of a practical test for an additional flight instructor-Rotorcraft – Helicopter rating.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.199(a); Yes, it is permissible for a flight instructor certificate to be reinstated on the basis of an applicant accomplishing an additional flight instructor rating practical test.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Great find. And it's even authoritative. Not merely in the Part 61 FAQ, but with the Legal Counsel opinion included.

One of the times that the Legal Counsel's office has gone beyond the strict wording of the regulations to get a sensible result.

 

[bobbysamd]

Permissable v. mandatory

QUESTION: Per § 61.199(a), is it permissible for a flight instructor certificate to be reinstated (i.e., the flight instructor certificate has expired) on the basis of an applicant accomplishing an additional flight instructor rating practical test, even though the applicant was not tested on his existing flight instructor ratings? As for example, a person holds an expired flight instructor certificate (a certificate that was issued on or after November 1, 1975) with the following ratings: Airplane Single-engine, Airplane Multiengine, and Instrument-Airplane. The applicant is now requesting to renew his flight instructor certificate by accomplishment of a practical test for an additional flight instructor-Rotorcraft – Helicopter rating.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.199(a); Yes, it is permissible for a flight instructor certificate to be reinstated on the basis of an applicant accomplishing an additional flight instructor rating practical test.

Well, that's what I always had thought. However, the word "permissable" is a conditional as opposed to a mandatory, as in "shall." So, you probably still must work it out with your examiner to have him/her write it up as a reinstatement.

 

[justApilot]

I would call your FSDO. Not that anyone cares, but when I was taking my check airman checkride I was able to get my CFII and MEI at the same time. 3 checks at once, that's efficiency.