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Experience and the low time CFI...

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pilotman2105

Ground control
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
520
This may start to sound like a desperation thread, and I don't intend for it to get that way. I'm simply looking for information as to how to "get my foot in the door" so to speak in aviation. I've spent the past 4 years working toward getting gainful employment in the industry (notice, this is not read profitable employment. I understand that) and I've run into a bump and would like some help.

The job search started by contacting several FBOs (15+) via phone looking for employment as a CFI. Some FBOs say no dice, others say send a resume. I have what I consider to be a fairly good resume and cover letter that has been critiqued by three different people. I generally call a week to a week and a half after I assume my resume has gotten there to follow up.

Now, before you go ragging on me, I'll be the first one to admit that my experience is probably 98% of the problem. I'm admittedly a low time CFI with next to no dual given (a meisely 1 hour). 330TT and no MEI. Otherwise, I have the AGI, IGI, high performance and tailwheel endorsements, even an ASES rating. Previous employment includes Vice President of a collegiate Aero Club and Director of a student employment service.

I guess what I'm wondering is if there is something I'm missing? Is there something more than just pure persistance that gets one started in the field as a green CFI? Inside references go a LONG way I know, but is it possible to get started with out them? Is there a way to get some experience as a CFI (ie: volunteer) without being considered a sell-out or doing PFT?

It's been done. I'm just trying to figure out HOW and look in some different avenues than I'm currently looking, 'cause these aren't really working too well.

Thank you for your kind and NON-abusive "hey, get the hell out of aviation" responses.

:)
 
how about actually going in to some FBOs personally and looking for work. There was a guy at my school that reasearched a bunch of schools down in FL, went down to FL for his spring break and went into each one personally to look for a job. He got several offers just because the CP's he talked to were impressed by his ambition.
 
Illini Pilot said:
how about actually going in to some FBOs personally and looking for work. There was a guy at my school that reasearched a bunch of schools down in FL, went down to FL for his spring break and went into each one personally to look for a job. He got several offers just because the CP's he talked to were impressed by his ambition.
Intially that wasn't an option, because I was moving to the area in the future. But now that I'm here, it is an option.

Never really occurred to me that might help. I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

Any others?
 
I'll have to agree that your best bet will be to talk to people in person. You're in an industry where who you know is more important that what you know and a face to face meeting is worth far more than a piece of paper. Another thing you may want to consider is where you are looking. I tried Southern Illinois and there is nothing there and a lot of pilots so no dice. When I came to Chicago just about every place I talked to asked me when I could start (this was a little over a month ago). Hang in there. It will come.
 
15 resumes?!? I'd just give it up...

Just kidding! If I had stopped at 15 resumes I'd be working a desk job right now. Believe it or not I found most schools don't care if I had the dual time or not, the only thing they required was CFI-I and 300 hours.

I've worked now at 3 flight schools, and I'll be totally honest: it sucks. If you're going to a Part 61 or small 141 school be prepared to feel like a used car saleman talking people into spending their $$ there with you. It sucks, it sucks, it sucks.

The first job I got was back in 2003 when pretty much no regionals were hiring, so no schools were hiring. I had an inside 'in', but still had to fly 1000 miles commercially to meet and greet the chief flight instructor. It worked, and I left the building with a job. 4 months later and still no multi time (school had no twins) I moved back with my girlfriend and did my MEI at a school to be able to do a mock checkride with the chief flight instructor. I pestered for 2 weeks after I passed my MEI and finally got the job. They didn't even look at my resume to see I had 200 hrs dual!

Well, after doing that 6 months I got realllllly tired of talking people into flying, unmotivated students, no more twin time because not many people fly twins part 61, etc. etc. I just signed on with one of those "bigger" 141 schools flying bonanza's and barons and absolutely love it. NO no-show's, I get make about $500-$600/wk, and I get 2 days off a week consective, something I couldn't do before because I had to fly.

My advice (and I know any flying job for you at this point is better than nothing, just keep these in mind).

-Go to a place with atleast one twin
-Look at the schedules and see how the other guys are doing, especially on multi-time
-Make sure the company has good equip. and mx (the first place I flew at just got hit by the FAA for a $1000 fine that each instructor had to pay per flight they did in older model airplanes...and its still under investigation...OUCH!!!)
-Make sure the people are happy there

cya
~wheelsup
 
Pilotman2105, don't give up. Things are starting to move. The school I used to work for has had 3 of it's instructors (includig myself) move on in the last 3 mos with one more getting ready to go. Where in FL are you at?
 
pilotman2105 said:
Is there something more than just pure persistance that gets one started in the field as a green CFI?
Nope, other than a lucky break or two. But then again, luck favors the persistant.

(Take it from someone who was in the same boat)

Goose
 
Resumes by themselves seldom have a large effect. In times past, I've figured 100 resumes sent for each response received. That's a rough average for many different types of flying. However, as other posters have stated, appearing in person is always the best way to deliver a resume for the types of jobs you're describing. Frequent follow up comes a close second.

You suggested that you've just moved to the area where you intend to work. Remember that here, you're the beggar, not the chooser. Typically you need to move to the work, and you can only do that after being invited to come to work. I can't remember ever moving somewhere and then finding work. Typically it's several states away to get to a job offer, and there have been many moves over the years.

You need to be considering employment where ever you can get it; if a local facility isn't hiring, then you need to be prepared to go wherever work may be. I just saw an ad for instructors in Guyana. I'm not suggesting that you go there, but I see ads all the time looking for instructors...you simply need to be prepared to relocate to where the work is.

You identified your lack of experience as a factor. That's part of the story, but you're right. That you have this endorsement or that doesn't really mean anything. It's nice, but nobody cares. It isn't even really a selling point, because just about everybody else has them, and they don't really do anything for your marketability anyway. No school can say, "we just hired an instructor with no experience who has a conventional gear endorsement...come fly with us!"

The only thing that counts for you at this stage is that you have the basic certificate and are available. Unless the school has a seaplane rating, nobody cares about that. Nobody cares about the high performance endorsement...it's just a given that you should have it; a basic qualification. Nobody particularly cares about the ground instructor certificates; you don't need them for most positions or programs, as you're already an instructor. You're already qualified to provide ground instruction.

Understanding this is important, because it relates to your marketability. As I read your post with your qualifications, the one salient point that struck me as valueable was your former experience in the aero club and management history. That says something about you, where a high performance endorsement doesn't.

What will make you more marketable is an instrument rating and a multi engine rating on your instructor certificate. These are things that the school to whom you apply can use to make money. These are things that the school can sell.

You should be prepared to go to the schools and demonstrate your earnestness in helping bring them business. Ask if they will accept an independant instructor; you'll bring them students if you can use their airplanes. You'll print your own cards (you should have a card printed when you send your resume; attach it. Make it a good bond or parchament paper with raised lettering, rather than something someone whipped up on their home computer). You'll hold ground schools. Offer to put together a ground school for them, and pay them a quarter or half of the cost for facilities useage, if you have rights to the students who stick with the program.

Where you're lacking the instrument and multi engine ratings for your instructor certificate presently, you have a golden opportunity. You need them. Often, schools are inclined to hire their own students. If you can manage the finance to do so, meet with a school and ask if they'll hire you as an instructor if you'll do your remaining ratings with them. Be sure it's where you want to work...if you have a choice between several schools and one has a charter department that you can eventually move into, that should be taken into consideration.

This isn't paying for a job. It's getting hired by the place where you've done your training, and it's training that nobody is going to give you. You're going to have to pay out of pocket to get these ratings anyway...if a school can use you when you've got them, it's a good starting point.

Very few places will take independant instructors now, especially with insurance being what it is. You may need to provide your own policy, and that can get very pricey. But making the offer shows initiative, and it shows a desire to work there. There is less movement in the industry, incuding in flight instruction, than say, five years ago. The entire industry is slow.

I won't give you advice to leave the industry. Only to consider your position, and to maximize your effort to be marketable. No employer is likely to go overboard to jump through hoops for you; your only question then, is what you are going to do about it. You need to be an attractive candidate to the company. You are a utility; you're an asset a company can use, so make yourself the most useful you can possibly be. Do you speak a foriegn language? Sometimes that can be an asset (I speak three; that's one of the first things that I always get asked about on a resume, before flight experience, work experience, education, ratings, whatever. Go figure...).

Do you have advertising or sales experience? Are you mechanically inclined? My first instructing job came concurrent with a lot of hours turning wrenches doing inspections and maintenance, fueling airplanes, balancing books at night, selling flights, advertising, etc. I set up a banner towing operation for the employer, towed the banners, made them, sold them, etc. I made myself as useful as possible. It took an airplane apart and put it together in a local mall, and had a display to recruit students. I towed one of their airplanes through the longest parade in the country as a float, as an advertising gimmick. I held ground schools. I worked day and night. It's all about being the best candidate for the job. When I started, there was no job. At the time, I needed to finish an instructor rating I didn't have. They didn't need an instructor. I finished the rating with the, then made myself as attractive and useful to them as possible, until they literally couldn't hardly say no.

That approach has worked for me in varying capacities time and time again. Find a local drop zone. They may not need a jump pilot yet. Hang out. Make some skydives...jumpers won't trust you until you do. Learn to pack parachutes; make some money on the weekends packing, and before you know it you'll be taking up a load or two, and then dropping jumpers. Work your way in. It's some place a resume won't cut it; being there personally and entering in until you're a recognized asset is what will cut it, and that's what you need to do. You might get a nibble or even a bite on a resume; it does happen. But why rely on chance or fate to put you there?
 
Entry-level job-hunting

You are not trying hard enough. Fifteen resumes is nothing. Start at a hundred and count from there.

I second the others. Fill the car with gas and drive to every airport that has general aviation. Leave a resume with each FBO. Dress as if you were going to an interview; you may be asked to see the Chief Instructor for a few minutes.

Print up more resumes, design a cover letter which you can customize to each school, buy some stamps, and start mailing. Customizing letters is easy these days with word processing; fifteen years ago I had to type each letter from scratch.

One of my favorite tricks was to apply to schools that advertise in pilot magazines. I learned about several schools that I didn't know existed through magazines, such as the Lufthansa school in Arizona (that was actually a Bonanza ad), FlightSafety Academy(promoting its Swissair program; I thought FSI only provided advanced training) and Mesa (I thought it was just an airline). I got interviews and/or jobs from each of these schools using this method. Call them first only to get the name of the Chief Instructor and address your materials to that person by name. After a while, follow up with these individuals.

Getting the first job is extremely difficult. You have to be willing to put forth the effort and be persistent. Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. A lot of ideas there that I hadn't even considered. I'll put those to use and see if I can get some more things going.

But, like nearly everyone said, moving seems to be the best option. Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury at the moment, because I'm still in school. So my roots are somewhat planted for the next year or so. I won't give up hope though.

Thanks again everyone!
 
Vladimir Lenin said:
Does anyone know if ATP considers outside instructors for employment if you do the CFII/ME/MEI at one of their locations?
I just inquired about doing the CFII, MEI, with them and part of the funding for mine is that I need a letter saying someone will hire me and they told me that wouldn't happen. They said it could but they would never guarantee it. That was just one guy on the phone so I don't know if talking to the right person would help. Whenever I go out there in person they always act like your imposing on their time because you aren't a student. Its like get out of here you worm and normally that is in front of a bunch of students (so they know how to treat outsiders) I guess when they become instructors there. They do hire a lot of folks that grow through the whole program (pvt-forward). You mileage may vary this was just my one time experience.
 
theres some good tidbits floating in this thread, but ill say from firsthand experience...you can send all the resumes you want, and you can call em 7 times a week, but if they never see your face, youre never anything more to them than a voice on the phone.

get your @$$ in the car/bus/train/bike and go visit the places youve been in contact with. once you show up in their area of operation, youve now become a viable option.
 
rumpletumbler said:
I just inquired about doing the CFII, MEI, with them and part of the funding for mine is that I need a letter saying someone will hire me and they told me that wouldn't happen. They said it could but they would never guarantee it. That was just one guy on the phone so I don't know if talking to the right person would help. Whenever I go out there in person they always act like your imposing on their time because you aren't a student. Its like get out of here you worm and normally that is in front of a bunch of students (so they know how to treat outsiders) I guess when they become instructors there. They do hire a lot of folks that grow through the whole program (pvt-forward). You mileage may vary this was just my one time experience.
that's funny, yea, there's no guarantees in this business
but with the recent exodus to the regionals, it felt like there was a glimmer of hope a few months back
 
pilotman2105, I was in the same situation you were in with 420 hours total time when I got my CFI. I interviewed twice with a part 141 school in Maryland and was turned down. I then went to the part 61 school on the field seeking employment and I was told that they didn't need me, but if I find students on my own they will let me fly them there. I advertised in the local community paper and put a Learn To Fly advertisement sticker on the back window of my pick-up. This worked, one client saw the sign while he was coming to a stoplight behind me.

After answering my clients questions and showing him the planes, I told him that he would be my first student as I just got my CFI. I sold him on the fact that having just getting my CFI, everything was still fresh. I have flown 15 hours with this client and he will be soloing the next time we fly. I told him today that if he makes three landings without me saying or touching anything, he will solo. He made 8 landings today without me saying a word or touching anything, so I know he is ready!

I also picked up a second student after he saw my add in the community paper. He has flown with me twice so far and he seems very happy working with me. So my best advice to you is get a agreement with a local school and advertise your services as a CFI. No school will turn away revenue you are generating them, and finding your own clients shows initiative. I continue to look for more students and this helps both me and the school.
 
Getting Hired

Not advertising is like winking at a girl in the dark...Nobody knows what you are doing, except you. I once gave out 1,000 business cards at a certain BIG airshow over a three day period that simply said. Flight Review $25.00 If within 100 miles of my airport, I'll come to you, over 100, you come to me. I had 32 takers and got noticed by both FBO's. One hired me. It was a start. That's been a hundred years ago, but the idea is still "HOT". I still speak to groups. FREE, and give out cards. DIFFERENT ONES! I work with the FAA as an Aviation Safety Counselor. I am a part of anything that goes on at my airport, Kids Programs, Cookouts, ALPHABET functions. I write for any aviation magazine that will have me. You have got to stay up front all the time, be noticed, be available.
Oh, and yes, you've got to be an exceptional teacher. They remember what you taught them...OR NOT! Keep in touch and we can swap "TIPS".

Jim Trusty, Instructor

([email protected])
 
Hey all,


I have to agree with crowd here. The absolue best way to get a job is a road trip. Mark off the places in 2-3 states and hit the open road with a nice shirt, tie and a stack of resumes.

To be very frank, 99% of all aviation outfits run in crisis management mode, with schools at the top of the list. The Chief Instructor can't take time from stamping out fires to talk to you on the phone or look at your resume...you're just another problem.

However, if you are standing in front of him/her, you are a potential solution to his/her problem RIGHT NOW. Hey, maybe two or three guys left in the last few days and he needs someone. Maybe the school picked up a few extra students. You just don't know... But what I will tell you, is if you walk in, you will be HIRED before anyone looks at a resume, simply because you are standing THERE at that moment.

BTW, looking over the resume's is absoutely the last thing he/she will ever do, because they ALL look alike. 350 TT, 10 multi, CFI/II/MEI with not really any dual given. The only way the resume thing really works is if you have a LOT of CFI experience, and they need someone like a 2 year CFI, tailwheel or someone with 141 check pilot experience.

Worst case is now they have a face with the name, and the memory of someone who took the time.

Best CFI job I ever had came that way. I took a road trip with a bud and scoured the Southeast, stopping at evey one plane airport to beat the bushes.

Nu
 
pilotman2105 said:
Thanks everyone for the advice. A lot of ideas there that I hadn't even considered. I'll put those to use and see if I can get some more things going.

But, like nearly everyone said, moving seems to be the best option. Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury at the moment, because I'm still in school. So my roots are somewhat planted for the next year or so. I won't give up hope though.

Thanks again everyone!
Still in school? Start a flying club.
 
One other, oft-repeated suggestion

Go to FAA WINGS seminars and pass out your cards. WINGS seminars are a great way to get business (and build hours for a better CFI job!). Aside from being a way to make a positive impression on the local FAA, I believe that CFIs also can earn WINGS if they sign off a certain number of trainees.
 
bobbysamd said:
Go to FAA WINGS seminars and pass out your cards. WINGS seminars are a great way to get business (and build hours for a better CFI job!). Aside from being a way to make a positive impression on the local FAA, I believe that CFIs also can earn WINGS if they sign off a certain number of trainees.
There is one of those being held at the local airport in a couple of weeks. I need to get some business cards printed up (preferably for cheap). Anybody have any ideas where to get them done?

I was thinking OfficeMax, but they're still $20 and I have to buy two boxes of them (which is 1000 cards).

Thanks for the suggestion, bobbysamd.
 
Experience and the low time CFI

Pilotman: It has been a long time since I was employed as a flight instructor. However, I did get my CFI and my first CFI job at age 19 with 255 hours, while still in college, and it kind of went from there. My experience in the "new CFI looking for work arena" is dated, but I went to work (initially part-time) for the same FBO where I had done my training. As I recall, I actually brought someone to them as my first student, too. Got CFII with them while working as one of their part-time CFIs. After that, I went to another FBO in person and was hired, again initially part-time and during the slow season. They put me on full time as things progressed. Got MEI on my own after that. When I next looked for an instructing job, it was with an FBO in another part of the country with whom I had done some recurrency and some rental. So, in person definitely helps and so does having done some training with them, but not always necessary. As for not having your CFII and MEI, shouldn't be too much of a barrier at this juncture (Again, my experience is dated. But there were often CFI-As at these FBOs. I was happy for them to take the primary students once I had my double-I and MEI and I was assigned the more advanced people.) Don't "volunteer" your services. Maybe give a talk or something if you like, but not actual flight instruction. By the way, these FBOs were all 141 operations, and I would probably recommend that as well (141 or 142). Good Luck.
 

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